Discussion on Gathering Hymn vs. Processional Hymn
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    I had an interesting chat with one of my cantors this weekend. We were discussing the difference between the term Gathering Hymn vs. Processional Hymn. When I put the hymns into the weekly bulletin, I put it in as the Processional hymn. As "Gathering" hymn, it's bringing people together as a church family but it still is a procession of the cross and altar servers, lectors, deacon's and pastor's. I'm wondering what other MD's use for terms and is there a rule as to what the "correct" term is by the GIRM??

    The same goes for Recessional hymn vs. Song of Sending Forth...

    This will be a good discussion among people on this forum, I'm sure! :-)
  • jpal
    Posts: 365
    The Missal calls it "Entrance Chant." Using that as a template, I use "Entrance Hymn." Hopefully everyone has already gathered before it begins.

    We now sing the seasonal Marian Antiphon at the end of Mass, but before that I think I called it "Recessional Hymn." I try to avoid terminology that adds to, deviates from, or otherwise skews the terminology in the Missal. I suppose at the end of Mass there might be more leeway since singing there is technically not part of the liturgy.
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  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,325
    From the section on Introductory Rites:

    "The Mass begins with the entrance chant/song. The celebrant and other ministers enter in procession and reverence the altar with a bow and/or a kiss. The altar is a symbol of Christ at the heart of the assembly and so deserves this special reverence."
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  • Chris AllenChris Allen
    Posts: 150
    Properly speaking, a "gathering hymn" would be sung as people enter the church parking lot.
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  • Daniel Bennett PageDaniel Bennett Page
    Posts: 835
    Although it could refer to the taking up of the collection ...
    Most 'gathering hymns' would add more to the liturgy if they were sung only in the parking lot.
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  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    And after the Mass there would be a "scattering hymn".
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  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I use the term "Entrance Hymn".

    I get very annoyed by people who have to get all RightSpeak about what to call the music at Mass. Whether it MUST be called a Gathering Hymn, or an Entrance Chant or whatever. I don't care if you call it late for supper, just sing something that doesn't suck!
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  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    Agreed, Gavin.

    In either case, the RightSpeak is kinda useless. While the song accompanies the procession, that's not it's sole purpose. The use of "Gathering Song" was intended to convey that, but nomenclature is an insider's shibboleth game, not worth spending effort over that way.
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    Gavin is right that I would take a traditional hymn called gathering over 70's-fluff called an entrance hymn. There are bigger battles to be fought. However, it is important to bear in mind that "gathering" is terminology meant to fuzz the distinction between priest and laity. All these minor changes on their own seem innocent, but are often pregnant with theological significance. I was reading an account of a priest that got rid of sanctus bells and excused it on the mundane grounds of it being a distraction, not that big of a deal, etc,. However, when pressed, he blurted out his real objection: He got rid of them because "nothing special happens at the consecration."
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  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    Scott_W, the hidden, real objection might not even be objectionable or theological in the strict sense: a new pastor of ours once declared, when asked in a liturgy committee meeting about the sanctus bells, that he didn't want to use them because he didn't like them, but when several people continued to press, saying that they did like them, he blurted out, "no, because no other church that I know of uses them."

    Now, this was flat out wrong and we all knew it, but he was the pastor and we didn't want to embarrass him or start an argument (he might not have actually known, even though the rest of us all did). I think it points out, though, that many times when we deal with other people concerning liturgical and musical issues, sometimes people dissemble and give reasons which are not the real ones, sometimes because they can't or won't lay out their real reasons for doing things the way they do. I guess that's the 'psychologist' hat that we have to wear as musicians and especially as directors.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 986
    I typically call it the entrance hymn, though processional would be fine with me, too. I think where I'm at, it might be more appropriate to call the Gospel Acclamation the "Gathering Acclamation" because that's when a lot of the late-comers start filing in.
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  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Yikes and yeesh, again...?
    If "it" is non-metric and chanted in Latin, English or Esperanto, it's an "Introit."
    If it's a strophic, metric text chanted or sung, it's the "Entrance hymn."
    If it's a metric, rhythmic and not easily categorized by rhyme, metrics (CM or 8787 etc.) it's an "Entrance song."
    If that can't be easily digested, go to Costco, get one of those electronic message displayers and really mess with people's sensibilities.
    Or go fish.
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  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Gathering, collecting, communing, leaving.

    It's the sandwich! The fish sandwich - not breaded, but grilled at Hardees.

    I'm waiting to >•< to post a review of this new menu item.

  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Or one can skip this whole kerfluffle altogether by not announcing the hymns.........
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  • Gina
    Posts: 12
    I've been calling it the opening hymn.
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  • JPike1028
    Posts: 95
    We just say, "Please join in singing number 596, number 5-9-6."
    Thanked by 1francis
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    Folks, perhaps I've just been in combative environments, but "RightSpeak" is often a way to eliminate ill will and help skip over terminology issues and get to the meat of the issue with a song choice.

    I have always used Entrance Hymn: as others say, it is the closest to that listed in the missal, and therefore the closest to what the church wants. That's really what I'm interested in.

    I use "closing" at the end. Gerre Hancock used to say that we didn't want to "recess" in life... :)
  • Steve QSteve Q
    Posts: 121
    Although it could refer to the taking up of the collection ...

    My favorite during the collection is the old Joe Wise tune "Take Our Bread".
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  • RPBurke
    Posts: 25
    In Ted Marier's day at St. Paul's in Cambridge, in the order of service it was simply labeled "Hymn". Not opening, not processional, not entrance, not gathering, not nothin': just "Hymn". Maybe that is all you need to say.
    Thanked by 3Liam Gavin BruceL
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    RPB- in the context of that more liquid of eras one could see the expedient logic in doing away with the other "baggage" associations. However, even in the OF and mindful of virtually every word I've ever heard from the golden tongue of Bill Mahrt it seems that for the sake of the liturgy, absent (which would be pro forma) parish wide liturgical catechesis, that naming the associative procession with its proper suit (Ace of Spades, Ace of Clubs, Ace of Hearts...) would at least plant the seeds of recognition of purpose in the minds of the PIPs. And to exhaust my point above, calling a "spade a spade" such as Entrance _______ (chant, hymn, song...especially in light of the new translation of the GIRM instructions dubbing all "chant") seems, well, just proper.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    Why not, if you must, say anything:

    Hymn 432

    People really do not care if a hymn is called entrance, offertory, communion or whatever. They just want to know which page to be on.

    The less information you give them, the better the chance they will hear what is beinfg said.
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,186
    Call it the "Entrance".

    That's what it is, that's what introitus means.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    At our school, we do the Introit from the Graduale for the priest's procession in. But since our Mass is held in a multipurpose room - as our chapel is too small for the entire student body - as a way of getting all the students coming from class settled and prepared for Mass, we do sing a hymn first. In this sense, I feel it truly is a Gathering Hymn.
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