Tithing
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    Several different threads recently have brought up the issue of parishes without money, or without the will to spend money. That leads me to offer to all of us two suggestions. The first one is probably "Preaching to the Choir." The second you may never have considered.

    1. You, yourself, should tithe. It amazes me how many people who work for churches, and complain about people not tithing, don't themselves tithe. And "tithe" means 10%.

    2. If your parish won't provide funds to do any of the things you feel should be done, consider reserving a portion of your tithe for the benefit of your own ministry. Perhaps 5% into the general fund, and 5% into a dedicated account of your own which you vow to only spend on things for your ministry.

    This is a way to exercise some control over your ministry's budget while still giving a full tithe to the church. No, it is not ideal, and "papers-over" whatever problems exist in your parish's management, but if there isn't a way to resolve your ministry's financial need, it at least partially solves that problem.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen canadash
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    I do tithe, and have done so for years. That doesn't mean 10% goes into the church budget. The parish gets 5% and I am free to apply the remaining 5% to charities of my choice. Sometimes that means it goes to groups that feed the hungry, provide heating fuel for the poor in winter, music items, or even having masses said for the holy souls.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    CW- That's what my household does, also- 5% to parish and 5% to outside causes.
    And sometime the outside cause is my own ministry.
  • Jani
    Posts: 441
    I have always purchased my own supplies for music and CCD. My parish happily supports my decisions, but since I can afford it, I buy what we need and don't stress the parish funds. And it is deductible.
  • mattcavoto
    Posts: 25
    Post removed by author
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    Not unless you set up a business front that ostensibly sells musical services and then treated the volunteer work as an in-kind gift.

    Pretty sketchy.
  • mattcavoto
    Posts: 25
    Post removed by author
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    Not unless you set up a business front that ostensibly sells musical services and then treated the volunteer work as an in-kind gift.


    My biz-law friends would call that an "aggressive tax strategy."
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Adam,

    Why sketchy? I'm imagining a situation where one is paid on a salary basis, with nothing counted "per-service." The DM might have to be at the church for 1 service this week, 3 services next week ... something variable like that, but it is all considered part of the salary.

    Seems to me that those "weekend hours" could be written off as a deduction, if the business model were set up correctly. The salary covers the weekday shifts, and then the business/DM keeps good records on the in-kind gifts offered for services outside of regular office/salaried hours.

    No clue how tax laws work, just a thought ...
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    No clue how tax laws work


    Not like that.

    First off, if you are a salaried employee, you are probably "exempt." That is, it doesn't matter how many hours you work, or when- you have agreed to get some specific amount of pay from the employer, whether you work 40 or 400 hours.

    Moreover- volunteer work doesn't qualify as a tax-deductible gift. So it would only work if, really and truly, one could say there is a legitimate business which is donating services. In order for that to not be a big fat lie, you'd have to actually have a business that actually provides actual musical services to actual paying customers.

    It's dishonest. And the cover story (this parish is getting musical services from a for-profit musical-services company) seems weird enough to arouse suspicion.

    But, you know- knock yourself out.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I tithe all the time. I should be making $X, so I agree to work for $X*0.9.

    That's my tithe.
    Thanked by 5Adam Wood Kathy Spriggo Andrew Motyka Heath
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,477
    Hmmmm. It would be an interesting deduction. I've also wondered if one were a volunteer that was "paid" $100, but simultaneously made a $100 donation back to the Church what the tax implications are. I'm not seeking tax advice, just musing.


    IF you were paid, you weren't volunteering.

    And the tax implications would be financially neutral but not paperwork neutral. You still have to report the $100 as income, and then report the donation as a deduction. And THAT assumes you are itemizing; if you are taking the standard deduction either way, you've lost money on the deal.
  • mattcavoto
    Posts: 25
    Post removed by author
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,325
    Adam Wood is 100% correct about this, and he put it more succinctly than I could.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    I tithe all the time. I should be making $X, so I agree to work for $X*0.9.


    $X*.6 would be more accurate. ;)
    Thanked by 5Adam Wood CHGiffen Ally Kathy Spriggo
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    I seem to doubt that
    I tithe all the time. I should be making $X, so I agree to work for $X*0.9.
    has any biblical foundation.

    Nor does it make sense. There is no tithe if you keep everything that comes in.

    You cannot give something that you have never possessed. You must be joking.
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    According to Jim Blackburn (Apologist for Catholic.com)
    The obligation to tithe (i.e., to give 10 percent of one’s gross income) was binding only on the Jews. Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic law (Matt. 5:17), so even Jews are no longer bound by it. But this doesn’t mean we’re not obligated to support the Church—we are—but there is no longer a specific percentage required.

    Scripture provides insight on how Christians should give:

    On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper. (1 Cor. 16:2)

    The point is this: he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each one must do as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. (2 Cor. 9:6–7)


    There is no mandatory requirement to give a specific amount of money or percentage of our income. We should each decide for ourselves how much to give and then do so in the true spirit of giving a gift.


    Also the Catechism says this:
    1351 - The faithful also have the duty of providing for the meaterial needs of the Church, each according to his abilities.


    I've said this many times but Catholics are required to give 100% of themselves to the Lord. Now of course this doesn't mean all of your money nor all of your time to the church but take this verse into consideration:
    Acts 2:45 "Life among the Believers" ...and the sold their possessions and goods and distributed them to all, as any had need.

    or this:
    Matt 19:21 ..."If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."


    Of course we must provide for our families and that is why the church paying hired musicians is a part in the distribution as in Acts above. But we are still required to give all and follow him. 10% just doesn't seem enough for what he paid for us.
    Thanked by 8chonak Adam Wood irishtenor CHGiffen Kathy Spriggo Felicity Earl_Grey
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