So frustrated and about to throw in the towel
  • Musicteacher56
    Posts: 621
    I know this has been discussed many times, but I just came home from another very trying rehearsal. My choir just does not listen to anything I say. Nobody takes direction and nobody makes corrections, so the music is stagnant and bland all the time. I've tried everything I know to make my rehearsals more enjoyable and happy, but my singers are either (1) not showing up at all or (2) showing up and not paying much attention other than to socialize with each other. My pastor is aware of the problem and I have been able to produce some decent things, including a Christmas cantata (but I had to bring in paid ringers to balance everything out). My choir is small....only 12 people, and people get overly offended way too easily when corrected.

    I know the Lord puts His servants in positions of leadership, but I'm about to throw in the towel. I love my job and the children's choir is doing beautiful, learning many chants and now ringing bells. But, the adults are so trying I don't know how much more frustration I can take.

    Sorry for venting, but this is the best place to do so. Surely, other DM's have had such trying conditions. God bless to all.
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    I once read a book called "Five Wheels to Successful Sight-Singing" It was about a young man who was trying to be a DM. His choir wouldn't listen to him either. He found a mentor and learned about the 5 wheels.
    Of course I can't remember what they were but it had some good advice on on sight singing and respect of the teacher. Look it up and read it, it might help.
    You can find it here
  • Steve QSteve Q
    Posts: 121
    God bless you for your efforts, MT56. I hope you don't throw in the towel, but it sounds like you might have to just to retain your sanity. I sympathize. Here are my $.02: In my mind, a choir director must be an absolute ruler - a dictator (a benevolent one, of course). I understand how sensitive people can be, but I have learned in my years not to be afraid of offend anyone (and I have done my share of offending!). If you think you are about to give up, you might consider as a last resort having a heart-to-heart talk with them saying this: If you want to be a member of this choir, you must come to all rehearsals and follow my direction without question. If you are not willing to do that, you are out!! See how many people are left after that, then decide if you can still go on.

    You said it's a small group. One option might be to go even smaller - even just a quartet. If you have even one or two who can do chant, it might still be worth it. I have done that. Hey, wherever two are gathered in His Name...

    Good to hear the children are doing well. They are the future and you are doing great work there. Perhaps that will have to be enough for now. I'll say a prayer for you!
    Thanked by 3Gavin Jani Chris Garton-Zavesky
  • ContraBombarde
    Posts: 471
    You are actually more fortunate! I came into a bad situation where the previous leadership was so nasty, and mistreated the choir, they all disbursed and went to other churches, moved away, etc.... I have a total of "3" actual choir members, two are paid as cantors, and 1 has been very faithful. It has been more than a struggle to try to get people to join. Everyone wants to join with no committment to come, and no desire to show up for rehearsals. I had a rehearsal Wednesday, in which an instrumentalist for one of my Masses was supposed to show up for extra assistance and practice. No show, no call. The adult choir consisted of my two paid employees. The children's choir failed to show up entirely. Don't feel alone. It happens. Just keep praying, doing your best, smiling, and leaving it in the hands of God! I came from a church with 25-30 in the choir, instrumentalists at all Masses, and 3-4 paid cantors. So I can understand your despair and agony over the situation. Just keep praying!
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    The MD at my church is pretty lenient with the choir; some of them just have to be absent at times, whether they have to travel for work or whatever. Since it's a small group (about 9), most of the pieces we do are two-part, and the progress doesn't show up over a season, but from year to year when we return to the same pieces.
    Thanked by 1Ralph Bednarz
  • cberry
    Posts: 19
    You might consider towing the line. If people leave, there is a concept called "addition by subtraction". You also never know who might be in the pews listening, just waiting for a change of direction for the better. Those people you need/want may well recognize what's happening and respond.
    Thanked by 2R J Stove tomboysuze
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,611
    5 Wheels - John Bertalot - excellent video available that goes with it - him and the young guy working with young choristers. Highly recommended. It's inspiring to you and to the singers as well. Book

    Worldcat has video VHS For interlibrary loan, it appears. Video is VERY enjoyable will hold choir's attention and help them understand their role.
  • Andrew Motyka
    Posts: 946
    As far as the "not showing up at all" problem, be honest with them about it. Tell them that it's not fair to their fellow choir members when they aren't there. Next week, you're going to have to repeat the exact same music at rehearsal because no one was there to learn it this week.

    As long as you're not nasty about it, people will appreciate you being up front and asking for a commitment. The choir members that do show up every week will especially appreciate it, and thank you for it. They're just as frustrated as you are.
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen R J Stove tomboysuze
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    This was my situation as well. They had been through a string of under-qualified directors for years who never stayed for more than a year or two. A few of the members were used to ruling the roost even dictating what repertoire would be sung. After the first two years and many many bouts of butting heads, I had a heart-to-heart talk with them. A couple people did quit as a result (a great blessing), some people eventually left due to age or moving and a few people actually had a change of heart. Some people after refusing to read music for 30 years+ actually started learning solfege. It's still a small group, not balanced (too few men) and 4-part a cappella is near impossible. We are still not where I would like to be in terms of repertoire. but things have improved immensely. People often comment on how much the choir has improved and how "professional" they sound. There are still points of contention, and still many challenges. We've never grown beyond 16-18 singers. As soon a new member joins someone else leaves because of school or work, but no one has left in huff since the heart-to-heart. But then there is issue of unsupportive clergy! ;) Those are the days when I want to throw-in-the-towel:

    "Sometimes I feel discouraged, and feel my works in vain, but then the Holy Spirit revives my soul again."
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Also, if you ask them to let you know about any anticipated absences for the coming season, you can use the information to plan repertoire. (I suppose this is a gentle way to ask for a commitment.)
    Thanked by 2R J Stove Andrew Motyka
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    I understand! I have just had two twenty year members quit for an undecided amount of time. This is so depressing. One really holds the altos together and I have a strong alto section because of her. She is leaving because of the chant we've been implementing especially at the ordinary. She also doesn't like the propers. She believes these changes are inhibiting the congregation from participating and the joy is lost. I feel like my choir is becoming a microcosm of Pope Benedict's prophesy: "The church will become small and will have to start afresh more or less from the beginning." And I believe I will really have to start praying to get through this.
    Thanked by 5Jani Jenny Earl_Grey CHGiffen stanmetheny
  • Musicteacher56
    Posts: 621
    Wow, Canadash, I hadn't read that prophesy, and it all is beginning to make sense now. Just today, I had a woman tell me that the Year of Faith should be reflected in "joyful" music, not "long haired chants and old fashioned hymns", and she, too, feels it is inhibiting the congregation from participating and joy is lost. We all need to pray for each other. I firmly believe that we were placed in our positions by God Himself. And because of that, He will give us the strength and courage to outwit the enemy. But, it's a battle, that's for sure.
    Thanked by 3canadash Earl_Grey irishtenor
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    "Long-haired" chants? What does that even mean?
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood CHGiffen
  • Musicteacher56
    Posts: 621
    You know....old and fuddy duddy.....out of touch with today (translates to "anti OCP")
  • JDE
    Posts: 588
    "Longhair music" used to be a derisory term for classical music. I presume she means the same thing about the chant, and it seems somewhat appropriate given the hairstyles of the Middle Ages when it was being codified.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Is outrage! With all the academic wattage on this forum, no one cites that "long hair chants" was medieval code for the melismatic portions of the Gradual, Alleluia, Tract and Sequence? Think Rapunzel....
    Can't remember the HTML for Harold and the purple font...
    Thanked by 2JDE canadash
  • PeterBPeterB
    Posts: 6
    Hello '56'. I can relate to your valiant efforts, and I admit the advice of the posters here are noteworthy. You do need to lay down the law. There is no greater service to our Lord than to be in service of the Liturgy of the Holy Mass. Some will get it, some will not. But consistency in rehearsal attendance is important...but not absolute. I always emphasize with my group that family comes first. And I defend my troupes from petty derision among the choir when this person or that misses rehearsals. But if I find someone taking advantage of the group, I will confront them. I have lost some due to this stand. I have lost some by introducing the Propers via the SEP; by using only a little more Latin. That's a price. But one method I use to combat it is to rehearse well some really awesome pieces for meditations, from Byrd, di Lasso, etc. And on the Sundays we DO have enough members to perform them well, the feedback from the congregation is noticeable. I emphasize to the group that we can only accomplish this with their dedication to the parish. This is a calling.

    We will always lose people, but we rarely lose choir members. God Bless you in your discernment.
    Thanked by 1R J Stove
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    With as little irony as possible:

    How "joyful" is your approach to traditional Sacred Music?

    I have a very small choir (8, when EVERYBODY shows up, which is never) in a very small church (less than a 100), with a very weird mix of preferences ("traditionalists" who mostly like Protestant hymns and "contemporary" people who want an odd combination of folk mass, campfire songs, and old white gospel).

    To grossly oversimplify what I've been doing: I have taken two approaches as I've introduced two different new bodies of music. (Music from before 1870, and music from after 1970.)

    In incorporating more contemporary music, I emphasize (both in performance practice and in rehearsal banter) the meaningfulness of the text, the beauty of the music, the appropriateness of the selection in relationship to the lessons of the day.

    In incorporating more traditional music, I emphasize the excitement, the emotional underpinning, the rhythm.

    That is to say- without (in my mind) betraying the nature of any piece of music or style, I try to emphasize the things which make it as like the kind of music preferred by the people not likely to want it.

    Am I succeeding? Never completely. But-
    (1) We did Ave Verum Corpus this past weekend, the chant in Latin followed by my English motet. The member of our congregation who is one of the biggest proponents of folk/praise/gospel music said it was one of the most beautiful things she had ever heard and asked for a copy of the music.
    (2) This coming Sunday we are doing Steve Werner's "I Have Been Annointed," with Conga drums. At rehearsal, my biggest proponent of chant and traditional music, who has specifically told me that she does "not like Praise music," was thrilled by the piece and did a fantastic job working on it.

    Addendum: The Conga drums were purchased with a donation made by the folk-music-loving congregant in story (1). And my English version of Ave Verum was written in honor of and dedicated to the choir member in story (2).
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    In our parish there are five Masses. Each is a little different, so there is choice. People have not abandoned our Mass. Not every Mass has the Gregorian ordinaries. I think it's the perception of the choir members; I don't know if it is accurate. I met someone in a neighbouring city who recognized me and complimented me on the music at Midnight Mass. She said it was the next best thing to the Vatican! lol! I hardly agree, but I think people like singing what they like and just do not want what they don't like and then they become stubborn about it all.
  • Paul_OnnonhoaratonPaul_Onnonhoaraton
    Posts: 434
    You might find THIS BLOG BY ANDREW MOTYKA interesting.
    Thanked by 2Salieri elaine60
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