Thomas Day / Why Catholics Can't Sing
  • Would anyone be interested in reviewing "Why Catholics Can't Sing" for this new Blog?

    ccwatershed.org/loft/

    I would like to know specific points he makes, and also biographical information about Day.

    I have never read this book . . . if you do your job well, perhaps I will be inspired to purchase a copy!
  • Odd that this book should come up this very day!
    Whilst riding around this afternoon I was thinking of this book, and that a more apt title for it (or a companion volume) would have been 'Why Catholics Won't Sing'

    The original book is engagingly written (as I recall after sever decades), full of pertinent anecdotes, mostly spot on analyses of contributing factors, lots of 'ammunition', etc. A temptation to mere polemic mars some of the book's attempts at an assessment of matters of substance; and, there is the old problem of 'preaching to the choir'.

    The endemic, ingrained bad attitudes (and some outright beligerence, obfuscation, and enmity) on the part of clergy (of all ranks) with healthier egos than to which priests are entitled; and laity alike, who have been 'taught' in subtle ways not to aspire to those heights they could well scale, are laid bare. Exposed is a culture which is anything but good ground in which for music to excell. A book of greater academic clout, though, might have gone beyond the problems and proposed antidotes and solutions.

    As I said at the beginning up there, it seems to me that the problem is not one of 'Catholics CAN'T sing', but one of 'Catholics WON'T sing'. It is, I suspect, scientifically verifiable that Catholics have the same musical intelligence as do Anglicans, the same vocal apparatus and potential as other humans, so to say that they 'can't sing' is to miss utterly, to gloss over, problems which underlie this basically non-singing culture, a culture that 'won't sing' and is determined not to sing. This is the real problem and puts responsiblity not just on 'the people' but upon their clergy, choirmasters, teachers who create a culture in which people WON'T sing. This is the true problem. It MUST be, because Catholics, being of the same human stock as everyone else, CAN sing if it pleases them so to do. So, the real question is 'why WON'T Catholics sing'.

    (One might suggest that giving them music of decent quality might help.)

    Having said all the above, I must be fair and reveal that I know of a number of parishes and chapels in which the singing is exemplary (and what is sung is worth singing). Unfortunately these parishes are but a few in the larger picture.
  • Why Catholics Can't Sing, in two words:

    Irish-Americans.
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    I can't give a very good critique because its been such a long time since I've read it. It is a pretty good book though so I suggest getting a copy. It certainly couldn't hurt, and its only $2.89 for a used copy on Amazon.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Something I prepared years ago for a music leadership staff meeting back in July 2005:
    Why Don't Catholics Sing? a synopsis-

    Every once in a while a book is published that falls into the category of "must" reading. Thomas Day's compelling book, Why Catholics Can't Sing (Crossroads, 1991) is that book. It is "must" reading not only for church musicians and the clergy, but for all Catholics who care about the liturgy. The following are a few of the main salient observations and opinions of Dr. Thomas Day:

    •There are folk groups, reformed folk groups, and "sweet-song" hymns. We have the St. Louis Jesuits, the Weston Monks and many others, singing "comforting words and easy-listening sounds."
    •"Mr./Ms. Caruso, upstairs, sings with amplification."
    • Sanctuaries were remodeled with carpeting and hanging plants, giving a "homey look" to what should be a temple of prayer.
    •The amplified sound that discourages the congregation from singing should be thrown out. The congregation must hear itself.
    •The three-chord guitarists, who give "new meaning to the word 'monotonous'" can go out along with the mics and speakers.
    •The Second Vatican Council specified that the treasure of sacred music should be preserved.
    •Choirs were to support congregational singing.
    •Day suggests that we "smash" the microphones; end the “Big Voice syndrome;” Day draws an amusing caricature with the description of the enthusiastic music director who drowns out everyone else with his mic’d and over amplified performances. Let the assembly hear its own voice, not the voice of an ego behind a microphone.
    •He wants good, plain and wholesome music: a few basic hymns and unaccompanied chant- like singing.
    •Gregorian chant has an aesthetic, an hypnotic sound. It is impersonal, humbling. Church music should elevate the people to prayer.
    •A superior church music program in a parish can only be attained if and when the pastor assumes a constructive, cooperative role with his music director. The pastor must be in charge. First-rate people chose other first-rate people. Second-rate people chose third-rate people! The pastor must be capable of teamwork. Everything begins with the pastor.
    •It is impossible for the man in the pew to choose what hymn he wants, since an unknowledgeable person does not know what he wants. No one can want what he does not know. Catholic people can sense inappropriate music; they may protest by not singing.
    •Day insists that a good Catholic hymnal is an absolute necessity. It should contain chant and simple responses. With a core repertory established as the music of the people, then other music can be added later. He suggests that music be contemporary in the sense that it speaks to the congregation.
    •Today, as in the past, there are those for whom the sung Mass poses a problem. In their judgment, the higher forms of liturgical singing are a 'performance,' which distracts from the real business of the liturgy.
    •But the fact is that the Church does desire a sung liturgy - and not just for great and rare occasions but ordinarily. The sung Mass is the norm.
    •Occasionally sing unaccompanied music supported only by a choir.... Maybe once a month let the music reach its full potential; let the entire assembly sense that it is doing its best to pray in song.
    •Hymns and songs are useful, but they can die from overuse. Catholicism's real musical destiny is in singing the actual texts of the liturgy, not songs which are dropped into the service.
    •Encourage music as an art.
  • I think this merits further discussion.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    If nothing else it has aged well. Truth does that.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Happy post-Thanksgiving all. W and I are especially grateful that our grandkids' other grandmother, Vava Judy, passed peacefully early this morning down in SoCA after their whole family celebrated Thanksgiving. A God Thing definitely at play.
    Back from digression...
    It would be interesting (perhaps) for DM's/other musicians here to use Day's talking points to assess what progress has looked like in their own local RotR parish situations over a significant period of time. For me, I would use 2007 to the present, the former year that I joined the guild of CMAA.
    Thanked by 1SamuelDorlaque
  • Thomas Day’s book was originally published in 1990. A revised version was made available in 2013 entitled, Why Catholics Can’t Sing: Revised and Updated with New Grand Conclusions and Good Advice.

    The revised edition was just recently reviewed by Marilyn Biery (a fine musician) in this month’s (November 2014) issue of The American Organist magazine.

    In her extensive review, she had some concerns about the book.

    For those who aren’t members of the A.G.O., recent past issues of The American Organist are available to read on the A.G.O. website, but the November issue is not yet posted there.

    http://www.agohq.org/current-issue/
    Thanked by 1Mark Husey
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    We have had an entire papal reign, focused on reform of church music, since Day. Are things different from what he describes?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    Gavin

    Definitely in many places different. And, now there is a magnifying glass on the liturgy that has everyone a bit more focused on the subject, including what is and what isn't appropriate. Of course there are those who choose to ignore the facts and truth about sacred music, and still continue to march down the path of do your own thing. But the people are not fooled. The protest is still obvious in those places. No one sings.
    Thanked by 1kenstb
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,325
    an entire papal reign, focused on reform of church music

    You must be kidding.
    Thanked by 1Jahaza
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Okay, okay.... where do you all really want this thread to go since CK thought it worthy of resurrecting?
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,483
    I've noticed that certain strata of the church absolutley hate this book. Many liturgists and contemporary musicians in particular. Traditionalists love it.
    But I like the blurb on the jacket: Dr. Day angers the liberals and makes the conservatives mad.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • I would also highly recommend the sequel, "Where Have You Gone, Michaelangelo?"

    BTW, do you know the difference between a Liturgist and a terrorist?

    You can negotiate with a terrorist.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • TDay
    Posts: 2
    There have been complaints about the revised and updated edition of "Why Catholics Can't Sing" (2013). Among them:

    # The printing is not easy to read.
    # There are mistakes in it, especially about the music sung at the Requiem Mass for President Kennedy.

    The printing is indeed a little difficult to read -- but I had nothing to do with that.

    The information on music at the funeral Mass is inaccurate and I hope to correct it for future printings (if the publisher permits that). In the meantime, this is a link to more accurate information about the music at this funeral liturgy:

    http://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/2786/what-song-is-this-kennedy-funeral/p1?post#Form_Body
  • Mr Day,

    Thank you for writing the original book, and publishing an update. I read it as a (much) younger musician and was grateful that someone was willing to announce that the Emperor had no clothes, but also to explain why so many people still thought he did.

    I discovered your book at roughly the same time I encountered Professor Hitchcock's book on the recovery of the sense of the sacred.

    God bless,

    Chris
    Thanked by 2gregp Kathy
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Happy Advent, Chris.
    That's an interesting way to nuance an assessment of a general state of sacred music in a global church, in any era. I interpret you as desiginating the Emperor as "worship music." Objectifying the centrality of music seems somewhat disordered to me. OTOH, if one were to posit that the mannered, and time-hallowed handmaidens and servants of the Divine Liturgy were attriting in favor of a ragtag, somewhat anarchic assembly of cretins, fools, revolutionaries, talkiing-head sophists as well as a smidgeon of truly gifted composers and performers (both young and old) trying to coherently adorn the Liturgy in a socially hostile world, I might buy that version.
    But as per usual, what's a mother to do?
  • Charles,

    I'll wish you a happy Advent in the morning, or at least on the other side of the Vigil Mass. Nevertheless, thank you.

    Thank you for examining my analogy. I'll take some time to consider how appropriate modifications are to the general idea I tried to present.





  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Thank you, Chris, I respect your analogy, no slight intended!
    Your brother in CenCA
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 708
    "Why Catholics Can't Sing" because the cantor sings for them :)
    Thanked by 1francis
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,191
    I hardly ever read PT but one of priests at my place asked me to read the review over there of the new version. To be honest, Paul Inwood ( someone I rarely agree with) has mostly got it right. To me, the new book needed a lot of updating and did not get it. No mention of propers or the renaissance of such things as the simple English propers, the multitude of new resources that can be gotten easily ( and many cases, free) and the changed landscape that many of us who have lived over these past thirty years can see. I loved the first edition and it really shook me to the core. I credit it with starting my journey back to such things as the GR and it really gave me hope. The new edition does little for that. Sadly, I do not believe it has properly taken note of where we are now. I realize I live in the bourbon lands and here we have much to be hopeful for, with new clergy interested in genuine reform and hope of new resources and people working hard to make change real and lasting. The new book does not reflect what I think is the changing land of Catholic music. I am hopeful. Perhaps too "rose colored" but hopeful nonetheless.

    I loved the first book. The new edition....eh. YMMV.
    Thanked by 1hilluminar
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,799
    Marilyn Biery... had some concerns about the book.
    It's a bit of a stretch to call it a review, but she is at least upfront about her attitude:
    If you are the kind of person who responds well to biting sarcasm and criticism that strives to be humorous, and if that spurs you on to thoughtful evaluation of the singing of your own congregation, then read the book. If not, don't bother.
    What you won't learn from reading to the end of the long and ill-tempered American Organist feature is how the 2013 edition differs from 1990.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    No mention of propers or the renaissance of such things as the simple English propers, the multitude of new resources that can be gotten easily ( and many cases, free) and the changed landscape that many of us who have lived over these past thirty years can see.


    Yes, no, maybe.

    It might be interesting for some scholarly type to compare adherence to liturgical/liturgical-music principles in the US both before and after VatII (say, e.g., the periods 1940 to 1965 and 1975-present.) Use a scale of 1 to 5, with 5 being 'compliant in full' and one being 'really Protestant.'

    Frankly, I doubt that there would be much difference in the distribution curve.
  • Dad 29,

    Would the decline be uniform across the Catholic world? Would the "crash" or lack of one relate to specific issues?

    For example: in this country, Irish Catholics were a "persecuted" minority for many years. In Ireland, not so much. Was there a persecuted group in Ireland which, when persecution came to an end, had taught people to love the bits of driftwood instead of the full, dry, whole boat?

  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,483
    Thank you Dr.Day for appearing on our humble forum! Please do not be so recitent in the future. You would have much to contribute!
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,232
    Chris, I don't think that we'd see either a "decline" or an "increase." (Remember, we're talking about liturgical/liturgical-music praxis, not attendance, confessions, etc.)

  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    I think the keystone of all this is how music education (really, vocal training) is in seminaries. The first battle is getting the celebrant to sing. We recently had a very nice Sunday Mass with a guest celebrant who prefers not to sing ANYTHING. The celebration seemed more everyday and I found the transition from spoken to sung (we did mostly easy antiphons that day) pretty jarring. On the other hand, when other guest celebrants come (say, one of the local Benedictines or even our Vietnamese vicar, who likes to joke about his terrible accent) and sing a lot, the people seem more energized. Keep in mind this is just dialogues, etc. We don't sing the readings here and do the responsorial psalm.

    For what it's worth, I feel like the internet's pervasiveness and free resources have been a huge force in this. Even with minutiae like offering an alternative to sometimes poorly-transcribed chants in OCP/GIA/WLP resources (pax Fr. Chepponis and others on here associated), the internet things offer a big counterbalance.

    At the same time, the online resources for singing the Mass (everyone from Watershed to NPM seems to have done some) have made learning of the basic parts of the Mass much easier than ever before. It's a very hopeful time, but of course all of this depends very much on the gratuitousness of the clergy in liberalizing the use of good liturgy, and the laity in helping them accomplish it.
  • Amen to that, Bruce. The celebrant is key, as if they don't intone/sing their parts, then it doesn't make sense for the PIPs to do the same, and it will feel awkward to them, and they won't sing. It must be led from the clergy, with us in close support.
    Thanked by 1hilluminar
  • Marilyn Biery is no doubt a wonderful person and fine musician. However, her "review" in AGO is simply a rant of dislike concerning this book, with almost no substance. Her central thesis seems to be that this is not a scholarly book. Of course, Dr. Day (an academic who knows the difference between a scholarly book and a personal reflection) never claims that this is a scholarly book. So her review focuses on a non-issue. Paul Inwood has done a much better job over at PTB, by listing actual points of disagreement with Day's theses, which he also outlines.

    My take-away is similar to that of Kevin in Kentucky: Day's book was very important and timely and influential in 1990, but it has not aged very well. Simply because there have been a lot of positive developments in the past 25 years in terms of praxis and available repertoire/resources, and a lot of cases of extreme viewpoints being tempered by a healthier middle ground. Just look at the course offerings at NPM conventions over the past 25 years, along with the growth of the CMAA conferences. That would be a wonderful subject for more detailed study, by the way. Is there still a lot of work to do? Certainly. Is the situation as bad as it was in 1990? No - I think there has been some dramatic change since then.

    Full disclosure - I have only read the original, and not the revised version.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Mark Husey
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Nothing but concurrence with Kevin and Jared here. But, to be fair, Professor Day's first edition (as I've not read its 2nd edition either) still remains a valuable, viable resource because even in my few and short visits and encounters both in and out of my diocese, there are parishes aplenty for whom Day's caricatures and circumstances are yet and still standard operating procedure.
    There remain lay and clerics alike aplenty who, were you to ask them if the term "Reform of the Reform" meant anything, or "Can you explain the difference between an Ordinary or a Proper," "What is progressive solemnity," and largest of all, "What do the documents pertaining to liturgy and music promulgated at Vatican II actually say?....all you'd hear would be the silence of the crickets.
    Thanked by 2ClergetKubisz kevinf
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,191
    I have read both editions and I stand by my writing. For us "old' types, these last years have brought so much hope. As I just finished my 32nd First Sunday of Advent, to sing the introit and the communion, to hear the dialogues and the collect sung, to sing the Kyrie, to sing Paul Manz's E'en so Lord Jesus. I cannot feel anything but hope.

    From the poor bourbon lands,
    Kevin
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Mark Husey
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    Okay, okay.... where do you all really want this thread to go since CK thought it worthy of resurrecting?


    *Bookmarks thread for resurrecting November 28, 2016.* :)
  • It seems like some people I work with like to bring up old issues on the anniversary of it as well.
  • image
    Thanked by 1Scott_W