The Liturgical Day
  • henry
    Posts: 241
    Does every Solemnity begin at 4pm the previous day? For instance, does the Immaculate Conception begin at 4pm on Dec 7, and if so would it be wrong to say the Advent weekday Mass after 4pm that day?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Short answer: I don't know for sure, but I've seen it done, and my guess is that it was lawful to do so.

    The starting time for vigil Masses before a Sunday or Solemnity varies from diocese to diocese; in mine, vigil Masses for Sunday may start at 4 pm Saturday.

    Once, in a retreat setting, I saw a priest offer a Saturday weekday Mass at 5 or 6 pm, and my guess is that it's permitted to use the weekday Mass until midnight.

    Unless someone here has a more settled answer, ask your diocesan office for worship.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Yes, 4pm. The official liturgical schedule is:
    4pm - Mass
    5:15 - Early Bird Dinner
    6:00 - Watch sports/movie on television
    8:45 - go to bed
    on the Feast Day: observe the Holy Day by doing crafts, working in the garden, or going to Michael's
    Thanked by 2Gavin ryand
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    Liturgically, it begins after First Vespers. Most diocese have a policy that a vigil may commence a sunset or 5pm, whichever comes first. Some places have different times for various pastoral reasons.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    Liturgically, it does begin at Vespers, which occurs in the "evening", which technically (at least canonically, IIRC) means anytime between noon and nightfall. In the USA, 4pm was set by the episcopal conference decades ago as the marker of evening for the purposes of celebration of anticipated Masses (a local ordinary can set it later, and some dioceses choose 5pm, IIRC), and tends to be the marker for Vespers as a practical matter.

    In any event, this is true for feasts that have a first vespers, too.

    However, it is modified by the table of precedence. If the first evening falls on a day of higher precedence, then the second vespers of that day trumps the first vespers of the day that follows, and the propers of a Mass said in that evening follows suit.

    A good hypo: when Christmas falls on a Saturday, if a parish decided to have Mass on the evening of the 25th (very odd, because most parishes actually don't in that instance, as most people are a Christmas dinner, but it does happen in some places), the propers are for Christmas, NOT Holy Family. The USCCB calendar folks used to screw this up royally back in the day, but corrected themselves the last time this happened (2010).
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • jpal
    Posts: 365
    As stated by others, 4PM is not a hard and fast rule. The norms say "The liturgical day runs from midnight to midnight. However, the celebration of Sunday and of Solemnities begins already on the evening of the previous day."

    The rule is just "evening," and what dictates "evening" is however it is defined by custom. On this coming December 7, you could technically celebrate the memorial of St. Ambrose (not optional in my ordo) at 4PM or later. However, I would say that to do so much later than 5 would be at the very least unusual, especially since it gets dark so early. By then, I would think, the Church is already "thinking" about the next day if it is a Sunday or solemnity. But by no means would it be illicit.

    What you definitely cannot do is have Vespers I for Dec 8 followed by Mass for Dec 7, or worse, vigil Mass for Dec 8 at 4PM followed by Mass for Dec 7 at 6PM or something. That would violate the table of precedence referred to by Liam.
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,159
    Note that prior to 1955 the liturgical day always started with Vespers unless the (more complex) precedence rules provided for second vespers.
  • SpeakNSpirit
    Posts: 45
    From what I understood, ideally, the Sundays and Solemnities liturgically begin at sunset, seeing that at the time of Christ and before, the day began with evening, particularly the Sabbath: "Then there was Evening and Morning, the First Day".
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