Identifying Ordinary Chants not in the Kyriale
  • matthaeusglyptes
    Posts: 13
    Hi, where can I find a resource for identifying the origin and source of unusual and uncommon settings of the Ordinary in Gregorian notation which do no seem to match anything in the modern Kyriale?
  • matthaeusglyptes
    Posts: 13
    Here are examples of unfamiliar Ordinary settings apparently not in the Kyriale or Liber Usualis. Does anyone know where they come from?
    Picture 19.png
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  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,169
    Where did you find these chant settings?
    Thanked by 1matthaeusglyptes
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,732
    The Global Chant Database is your friend...
    http://www.globalchant.org

    I input the first few notes of each piece into the Search by melody function.

    The Agnus Dei, could match one found here:
    Martin SCHILDBACH, Das einstimmige Agnus Dei und seine handschriftliche Überlieferung vom 10. bis zum 16. Jahrhundert; Erlangen-Nürnberg, Diss., 1967

    And the Sanctus, may be found here:
    Peter Josef THANNABAUR, Das einstimmige Sanctus der römischen Messe in der handschriftlichen Überlieferung des 11. bis 16. Jahrhunderts; München, 1962

    You would have to check to confirm.
    N.B. The Global Chant database is not a complete index of every piece of chant, and the search by melody is not perfect!
    Thanked by 2matthaeusglyptes CHGiffen
  • matthaeusglyptes
    Posts: 13
    These are in 16th c. cantionales, which otherwise show some evidence both of earlier forms and later innovation.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • matthaeusglyptes
    Posts: 13
    Update: I have my hands on these books by Melnicki, Thannabaur, and Schildbach, but they chiefly shows lots of incipits, referring to an index of manuscripts which I now must look up. Very useful, but much work still ahead!
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Chris_McAvoyChris_McAvoy
    Posts: 389
    Matthew, I think you should send an email to " Anton Stingl jun."
    He is the one who compiled the Gregor und taube book dealing with troped ordinaries of the Mass. A few of the ordinaries in it do not appear in any of the current (or even 19th centuyry) vatican chant kyrials/graduales. He probably knows where you can find a source. I have no idea how to contact him but it says this on the back of the book:

    "Zum herausgeber: Anton Stingl jun. leitet seit 1988 die Choral-schola Freiburg und war von 1994 bis 2006 Scholamagister am Freiburger Münster. In zahlreichen Kursen bei Godehard Joppich vertiefte er seine Erkenntnisse in der gregorianischen Semiologie. Seit 2007 Mitarbeit an verschieden Choral-Publikationen Veröffenlichung von eigenen Beitragen zum Thema Gregorianischer Choral. Seit 2010 Mitglied der Restitutionsgruppe der AISCGre."

    You can probably find his email if you look, as you are more familiar with german than I am.

    You could also ask Bill Marht, he has good leads for this kind of information.
    His phone number is on this website somewhere, ask me if you dont see it. He is easy to ask questions to. (One of the most helpful people for liturgical music questions).

    Another person you could ask is Patrick Jacobson in Alexandria, Virginia.
    He has significant familiarity with medieval manuscripts and academic books more than most people, and sometimes sings obscure repertoires of forgotten chants.
    703-370-0299, email: Ikila988@aol.com
    Thanked by 1matthaeusglyptes
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,732
    matthaeusglyptes

    This is one of the problems with the global chant database, it is an index of other indices.
    Good luck with getting access to the manuscripts, I wonder how many are online?

    Do please keep us updated with your progress.
    Thanked by 1matthaeusglyptes
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