What were they thinking?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,223
    On Sunday, our church sang "America the Beautiful" as a recessional song after Mass, since by coincidence it happened to be Veterans' Day.

    But I was shocked and disturbed to see in the missalette that it contained a *forbidden* word: a word that must be expunged! A word so obscure that no one would understand it! A word that would prevent the people from full, conscious, active participation in the ritual action!

    Here, friends -- steel yourselves, now, -- is the dread word:

    America! America! God shed His grace on thee,


    (shudder)

    Discuss! :-)
    Thanked by 5Ben Gavin CHGiffen donr tomboysuze
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    First we prayed about a basement, now we sing about a shed.

    We should just stick to good traditional Catholic culture, like "Gather Us In" and the Prayer for Serenity.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • Paul_OnnonhoaratonPaul_Onnonhoaraton
    Posts: 434
    The current translation of the "Our Father" also uses "Thee," and I feel that people have no problem understanding it.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    If they changed it to "God shed God's grace on you," there'd be rioting.

    But change the liturgy? How could anyone object to THAT?
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    "What is this place where we are meeting...." Apparently via email messages between Afghanistan, Langley VA and Quantico VA, according to all the newshounds.
    Oh, you meant a church, AW? Hmm. To that I can only respond "I lack the wisdom to know the difference."
    To RC's shudderence (rance, runce...? Where's Giffen when I need him?)
    Verily fine Richard, I hereby vouchsafe unto YOU that mine own lips shan't e'er befoul and besmirch such fine zephyrs upon which sonorous and, yea, ineffable word doth grace the climes of your aural orafices (orafy, horrify, geez this is hard, I need some dewfall stat!) as so to assuage from your unsullied lips that "dread" (Pirate Roberts) detritus of arcanery, and which causeth those accursed with oral impediments (I speak of Sylvester, or Sylvethter, foe of Sir Tweety the Byrd) to lithp sibilant sounds successfully, and evoking undue dithtress, nee distress. Huzzah, brave Richard, heir to Kings' names eternal and immortal.
    Thou hatht thaved me!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Torculus
    Posts: 44
    America! America! God shed His grace on you,
    And crown your good with brotherhood,
    From sea to shining ______?
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Brew.
    Rue. (as in a sauce)
    Dune.
    Boom.
    I always wax nostalgic and apocalyptic as Christ the King approacheth.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,988
    I think someone has been in the wassail prematurely. ;-)
    Thanked by 1Chris Allen
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,200
    Brew? ... hahaha

    Roux? ... we might Rue that one, hehehe

    Slough, slew, or slue (depending upon you predilections)? ... a real quagmire, although "sea to shining slue" preserves the assonance.

    Now, on to "My country, 'tis of you, sweet land of _ _ _" ... maybe "liver, too"?
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Heh heh, Chuck said "assonance." Heh heh.
    I know I don't look atoll like Ryan Gosling, but neither do I resemble Gordon Cox. Roux, rue, 'Roo (down unda), so's I can't spell.
  • jpal
    Posts: 365
    Amer'can Church! Amer'can Church! God shed His tears on you,
    And then supplant guitars with chant,
    And chairs with wooden pew.
    Thanked by 5Earl_Grey chonak Jeffrey Quick francis Chris Allen
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,988
    What's this talk about pews? Was it pews in 19th-century Russia? It was not!!! Is outrage!
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood CHGiffen
  • Ally
    Posts: 227
    "and then supplant guitars with chant"
    That is an AWESOME rhyme.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    To behold its virtues, I'm told
    Resolve and patience most bold
    To those who advance right use of guitar
    Calloused fingers prove apt avatar.
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 904
    All the contemporary Gospel-like songs (lead me guide me) also get away with using thee and thy etc. But not traditional Christmas carols, no those must be updated, gender neutered and generally dumbed down (away in a manger. Good Christian FRIENDS rejoice, etc.)
  • Adam Schwend
    Posts: 203
    I'll probably be called an Anti-American hater....but America The Beautiful isn't remotely religious, let alone sacred. The larger issue is that it was sung at all.

    There are many patriotic hymns out there..."God of Our Fathers", "Battle Hymn of the Republic", etc....why that song is sung at Mass, even as a recessional, is beyond me....unless we celebrate nostalgia and feelings more than the Divine and Omnipotent Ruler of the Universe....which we probably do.

    *stepping off soap box*
    Thanked by 3Ben Ally Gavin
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    No Adam, you're not a hater. But I think you've not thought through the "connections" of this country's origins and proponents, its core values and the martyrdom and heroism that was divinely inspired to transform experiment to experience. Verse three alone is that testament if the geographical paean of one is insufficient. There is nothing nostalgic about the sacrifice of those who died at Bunker Hill to those who died in Helmud Province or Benghazi, or Mychel Judge at Ground Zero. I pray that each one of the sung and unsung had the fleeting memory of that verse "No greater love can a man have..." as death was realized as the only relief to come in time.
    Battle Hymn is not a patriotic hymn, it is an eschatological allusion associated with the circumstances that Mrs. Howe was moved by to chronicle in her hymn.
    The touchstone dichotomy that one must excuse about such hymns, Adam, was typified by my choosing "Eternal Father, strong to save" (MELITA/NAVY HYMN) as the recesssional, which for veterans is most appropriate in many ways, but was literally over the heads of most congregants. Then at the next, ATB, which was thoroughly taken up. Who are we to judge?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,223
    I wondered about that point too, Adam, as I was introducing the song. "Hymn" isn't the right word; "anthem" fits, I suppose. At least the song is about the high aspirations of the country, and not too triumphalistic.

    "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" is particularly problematic: what theology is behind *that* song?
  • PMulholland
    Posts: 120
    Adam, are you Canadian? eh?
  • CindyCeciliaCindyCecilia
    Posts: 65
    I also elected to use "Eternal Father, Strong to Save" - many people were unfamiliar with it, but appreciated the text. And there were a few who were livid that I did not use "God Bless America".
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,988
    My congregation has a number of ex-navy guys. They always appreciate "Eternal Father..."
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    RC, regarding "Mine eyes have seen..." you can consult any hymnal history book or likely even google/wikipedia the text and get the same history of how Ward-Howe allegorized her nursing visit among the Union encampment in D.C. to depict both the apocalyptic disaster (brother v. brother) and the final triumph of good over evil which she was certain would prevail.
    Personally I think it has more ganas as a "patriotic" anthem than does "God Bless America" or the NWOrder anthem "Let there be peace on earth." (hack....)
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood CHGiffen
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,482
    Not that "I like it" is much a of a defense of anything, but...
    I like it.
    Thanked by 1tomboysuze
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,223
    Exactly, Charles. "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" is not even a song about the country: it's about apocalyptic warfare.

    And the apocalyptic aspect of the song -- its identification of "our side" in war with divine justice -- is a reason to consider it triumphalistic, arrogant, maybe even Manichean in effect.

    And with the thumping little march it's sung to ("John Brown's Body", etc.) -- I hope nobody really sings it in church.


  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    For sure. I'm not advocating for it, just giving a "take." But duplicity however couched or obscured in worship is likely as long-lived as the church itself. (How I'm so looking forward to Dec.12th. I'm not on Rocco's bandwagon.)
    When in doubt, employ such duplicity after hearing "Deo gratias/Thanks be to God" only. Regarding the tune in question, never, ever use the Ringwald. Worst ever!
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