Writing your own Mass parts?
  • EGrimm
    Posts: 13
    One of the musicians at the parish offered to "write some new Mass parts" for the students to sing at the school Mass.
    This makes me nervous.... anyone know the rules on this?

    Thanks!
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    There aren't rules against it. Composers are encouraged to compose. On the other hand, music directors have the task of choosing suitable music.

    There are good reasons not to use original Mass settings in a school, though. There are two important objectives to keep in mind. You want to prepare children to participate actively in the parish Sunday Mass, and you want the children to develop some experience with the Catholic musical heritage. So for a few months, they should learn a Mass setting used at the parish Sunday Mass, and then for a few months a setting from the chant repertoire.

    Thanked by 2Gavin canadash
  • Actually, there is a rule about it, namely GIRM 393, which says
    Bearing in mind the important place that singing has in a celebration as a necessary or integral part of the Liturgy, it is for the Conference of Bishops to approve suitable musical settings especially for the texts of the Ordinary of Mass, for the people’s responses and acclamations and for the special rites that occur in the course of the liturgical year.
    Likewise it is for the Conference to judge which musical forms, melodies, and musical instruments may be lawfully admitted into divine worship, insofar as these are truly suitable for sacred use, or can be made suitable.


    By the letter of this law you need the Conference's approval before using “new Mass parts”.

    The USCCB adaptation of this paragraph only requires approval before “publication”, so perhaps in the United States new Mass settings can be use without approval as long as they are not published.
  • Here's the USCCB official text from the GIRM:
    393. Bearing in mind the important place that singing has in a celebration as a necessary or integral part of the Liturgy, all musical settings for the texts of the Ordinary of Mass, for the people’s responses and acclamations, and for the special rites that occur in the course of the liturgical year must be submitted to the Secretariat of Divine Worship of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops for review and approval prior to publication.

    While the organ is to be accorded pride of place, other wind, stringed, or percussion instruments may be admitted into divine worship in the Dioceses of the United States of America, according to longstanding local usage, in so far as these are truly suitable for sacred use, or can be made suitable.


    So, what does "publication" mean? Does that mean that we can write our own musical setting of the Ordinary, Responsorial Psalm, etc. and use it as long as it isn't published by an official publisher?
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I would add to what Chonak said above that the purpose of an ordinary at a children's Mass is also for them to learn settings that they will sing elsewhere. It's hard to predict this today, but certainly the ICEL chants, and probably Masses VIII and XVIII would be important for them to know.
  • As well as Mass of Creation 3.0 ;)
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • This rule appears in that chapter of the GIRM which governs the role of the Episcopal Conferences. It is only in that chapter that issues related to publication are raised at all.

    Strangely, publication is not an issue in para. 393 of the Latin (or Canadian) GIRM: the USCCB has introduced it explicitly. Historically the republication of liturgical materials was regulated directly by canon law; nowadays it's largely regulated by copyright law.
    Indeed copyright permission (from ICEL) would always be needed to publish new Mass settings, but there's no need to say that in the GIRM! Hence, I think, para. 393 implies that musical settings for the Mass ordinary must be selected from a published source approved by the Conference of Bishops.

    However, obviously this rule is not of the same importance as, say, para. 48 which explicitly states that any sung texts replacing the Propers must be approved by the Conference. To sing a random hymn at the Entrance, instead of the proper introit or an approved other chant, is nothing more than liturgical abuse: but of course it's a liturgical abuse that is universally tolerated. So (without prejudice to the excellent points made above by Gavin and Chonak) it seems to me that an honorable new Mass setting should be tolerable as well.
    Thanked by 2Earl_Grey Gavin
  • JennyH
    Posts: 106
    Here's an excerpt from the 2012 book Let Us Pray. The author (Fr. Turner) seems to be ignorant of recent legislation on the matter in question:

    139. Finally, the option frequently taken by many parishes in the United States is “another liturgical chant that is suited to the sacred action, the day, or the time of year, similarly approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop” (GIRM 48). This option allows singing from the broadest repertoire of liturgical music. It would not support the singing of secular love songs at weddings. When choosing the text and music for the entrance chant, the appropriate song will be one that helps introduce the thoughts of the faithful “to the mystery of the liturgical time or festivity” (47).

    140. The approval of local bishops in the third and fourth options can be formal, but commonly bishops have given at least tacit approval to the use of songs appearing in published worship aids, if not songs composed by local musicians. In 1996 the Bishops’ Committee on the Liturgy said of music in the United States, “No official approbation is required for hymns, songs, and acclamations written for the assembly,*1 provided they are not sung settings of the liturgical texts of the Order of Mass” (Committee on the Liturgy Newsletter 33 [January/February 1997] 5). Nonetheless, the GIRM gives conferences of bishops and diocesan bishops the authority to restrict the music to be sung in parishes. It is hard to imagine a conference of bishops ratifying the contents of a hymnal song by song, culture by culture, but they have the authority to do so.


    Paul Turner serves as a facilitator for the International Commission on English in the Liturgy.
  • Anything goes!

    In other words, there is no official "white list." The bishops could create a "black list" but they haven't.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I'm pretty much convinced that neither such list will ever see the light of day in any of our lifetimes, if ever, both here and abroad. I wish I could be more optimistic that exhortations from the likes of B16 down through a Burke and then Wadsworth to Keyes to us would gain traction in the US conference alone. But the passing of generations, combined with the "Young and the Restless," will make headway.
    What could be a cultural game-changer that (perversely) might work like it did in the advent of early American filmakers, might be some blockbuster film culled from a sort of positive message version of a RCC "Da Vinci Code" in which the glories of our tradition are an integral part of a barnburner script, where the camerlengo actually IS a hero. Or some such. I believe films like "The Way" achieve enough cult success to show that people want the mysteries and rituals to point them to inner transformation that they're willing to "buy into."
    I don't know if I've articulated this vision well enough. Megaliturgies, even if a World Youth Event uses only Latin Rite chants, can never be "sold" as an option that the folks will slap their heads and exclaim, "Oh, that's how it should be." They, the BIG THEY, need a huge visceral experience, like a colloquium Requiem in IMAX, but also with the hook of a good yarn that speaks to their souls through the entertainment meets art medium.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,821
    Francis' Rules For Composing Sacred Music

    1. Live your life entirely devoted to the RC faith.
    2. Go to confession and Mass as often as possible. Beseech the aid of the BVM, the angels and saints. Pray the rosary all the time.
    3. Study the documents of the Church, learn, internalize, promote and mimic those things from longstanding tradition, especially composers of centuries past (The body of Gregorian Chant, Palestrina, Bach, Barber, Ockeghem, Byrd, etc.)
    4. Study, learn, sing and perform chant prior to and during Mass. Mimic.
    5. Study, learn, sing and perform polyphony prior to and during Mass. Mimic.
    6. Study, learn, practice and perform on the organ prior to and during Mass.
    7. Incorporate all into your compositional style, making music subserviant to the word.

    Never wait for a Bishop or anyone else to teach you the 'rules' of the Church. You don't ever wait for someone to tell you when to eat; hunger does so itself. If one does not seek out and search for wisdom and rules to apply to one's own life, he will become unruly and will starve himself of knowledge and the right way.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    especially composers of centuries past (The body of Gregorian Chant, Palestrina, Bach, Barber, Ockegem, Byrd, etc.
    Wow, brother Samuel, you've come a long, long way.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • francis
    Posts: 10,821
    Charles

    IMVHO, Barber imitates tradition in his style, and majestically so, don't you think? (wanted to get a modern in there that did)
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    To some extent Barber does indeed imitate tradition, but, in terms of sacred music, there is very little to assess. Most know of his sublime "Agnus Dei," which is an adaptation for unaccompanied chorus of music originally forming the slow movement of a string quartet and then later recast as the "Adagio for String." Much less well-known, but quite interesting, is his cantata "Prayers of Kierkegaard," which I have actually sung and whose lovely concluding chorale "Hold not our sins up against us" is something that I used several times as a choir director.

    Don't get me wrong ... I love Sam Barber's music ... but I just don't think there is enough of his sacred opus to put it in the class of the others on Francis's list.

    It is difficult, perhaps, to find a (deceased) 20th century/modern composer who might fit in that tradition worth emulating. But, to my mind, the sacred music of Ralph Vaughan Williams offers a larger and excellent body of sacred music to emulate, not just his many solid hymn settings, but also his "Mass in G minor," the cantatas "Dona nobis pacem" and "Hodie," plus the song-cycle "Five Mystical Songs."
  • francis
    Posts: 10,821
    ok... you can add your own 20th century composers... the rules still work.
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 638
    Regardless of what the rules say, people who want to ignore them will. The latest one I heard was that only the text must be approved by the Bishops...so composing new music and having the congregation sing it is perfectly ok to do without bothering the Bishop about it...the music only has to be approved if the composer is going to have it published. Foisting it on his/her home parish without approval is fine.

    Needless to say I don't agree with this interpretation...but I'm not the music director of that parish.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Don9of11
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,481
    Wendi- I'm pretty sure that this is actually accurate.
    (Someone with doc-knowledge able to back that up?)

    And from a practical standpoint, it makes perfect sense. Are you going to bother your Bishop every time you want to "try out" a new composition? You have to figure out if things work before you know if they are worth publishing.
    Thanked by 2Gavin CHGiffen
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 638
    From a practical standpoint that interpretation could force a congregation to endure some very BAD compositions. Which they then have no way of responding to short of leaving the parish. (It's been my experience that some composers really have no idea how bad their work is.)

    After all if it's ok to use any old musical composition without the need for approval from a competent authority , parishioners can hardly complain to the bishop about it.

    Somehow I doubt that the church intends to encourage that kind of musical tyranny.

    YMMV.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Don9of11
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    W, I think I said something like this to you at SLC: The entity we call "The Church," being the longest, most successful political organization on the planet, manages quite easily to speak from both sides of an equation (or the corners of the mouth) simulaneously. So the question of "intent" regarding implementing specific musical compositions depends on who's heaviest on either end of the teeter totter. If you hear James Moore's TASTE AND SEE at a papal Mass in Australia, the Church encourages that form of expression. If Nicolai Montani starts a hymnal project in the 19th century while blacklisting, with St. Cecilia Society sanction authority from said hymnal formerly well accepted and ensconsed composers, then the Church tacitly encourages musical tyranny. One could go on with this duplicity ad infinitum and nauseum.
    You know I manage four parish music ministry schedules. I know, for a fact, that at certain Masses, musical competency is so poor that it should be shuttered. But I haven't got any personnel to slot should I dismiss ANYONE. And, yes as you'd imagine, I do hold remediation sessions. OTOH, I have a retired priest in residence whose animus for one of the more talented singers and coros has prompted him to stop the singing of "La Gloria" mid-hymn to rant and rave and embarrass these generous volunteers (the maestra and organist are both former music students of mine in public HS choral.)
    There's no magic bullet about what happens in our home turfs, so why would we think that there's a magic line in the sand the Church would draw about musical and compositional praxis on a universal, global level. Encourage/Discourage? Flip a coin. Kinda sad, really.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 638
    Melo my friend...I know that you are correct. I also know that technically speaking Adam is correct.

    Idealist that I am, it's very frustrating to watch an entire parish held hostage to someone's ego. It would probably be less so if the music in question was at least bearable.

    Having someone refer to "the honkytonk Gloria that's played at our parish" is a little difficult to stomach with equanimity. It makes it worse that the person who said it to me likes Peter Paul and Mary style music over Chanted Propers. (which should provide some point of reference as to just HOW awful it is).

    I do apologize to the original poster...I wasn't intending to hijack your thread, this one just hit a little close to home for me.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Don9of11
  • 139. Finally, the option frequently taken by many parishes in the United States is “another liturgical chant that is suited to the sacred action, the day, or the time of year, similarly approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop” (GIRM 48). This option allows singing from the broadest repertoire of liturgical music. It would not support the singing of secular love songs at weddings. When choosing the text and music for the entrance chant, the appropriate song will be one that helps introduce the thoughts of the faithful “to the mystery of the liturgical time or festivity” (47).

    140. The approval of local bishops in the third and fourth options can be formal, but commonly bishops have given at least tacit approval to the use of songs appearing in published worship aids, if not songs composed by local musicians. In 1996 the Bishops’ Committee on the Liturgy said of music in the United States, “No official approbation is required for hymns, songs, and acclamations written for the assembly,*1 provided they are not sung settings of the liturgical texts of the Order of Mass” (Committee on the Liturgy Newsletter 33 [January/February 1997] 5). Nonetheless, the GIRM gives conferences of bishops and diocesan bishops the authority to restrict the music to be sung in parishes. It is hard to imagine a conference of bishops ratifying the contents of a hymnal song by song, culture by culture, but they have the authority to do so.

    I find this a remarkable statement. I hardly know what to make of it !!!
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    Well, it states the facts correctly, doesn't it?

    The text is from this book.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    No official approbation is required for hymns, songs, and acclamations written for the assembly,*1 provided they are not sung settings of the liturgical texts of the Order of Mass” (Committee on the Liturgy Newsletter 33 [January/February 1997] 5). Nonetheless, the GIRM gives conferences of bishops and diocesan bishops the authority to restrict the music to be sung in parishes. It is hard to imagine a conference of bishops ratifying the contents of a hymnal song by song, culture by culture, but they have the authority to do so.

    Richard, if that isn't forked-tongued gobbledygook, then I am Ryan Gosling.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,215
    The underlined part is the guy's opinion, and I can't fault him for it (though I don't agree).

    So what's gobbledygook about it? it's clearer prose than the passage he quotes from the BCL newsletter!
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 638
    What exactly ARE considered the liturgical texts of the order of the Mass?
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    "From a practical standpoint that interpretation [that the bishop's approval is not necessary] could force a congregation to endure some very BAD compositions."

    Because we know what good taste bishops have!
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    "Taaaaayyyyyyyssssssst and seeeeeeeeeeeeee.....etc."
    Oh, and you, RC, just turned me into Ryan Gosling. Ladies, be gentle in the queue.
    And Chonak generally turns me into a newt.
  • melo: You got better.

    Wendi: the ordinary parts, that is, those which can't be replaced by other-suitable-songs.

    I think the quoted paragraphs actually capture the state of affairs rather well: The Bishops can regulate but they don't. You can use new or untried or little-known music in the places where hymns are usually sung: it ought be textually and musically unobjectionable.

    In Canada the bishops have done exactly what the author found hard to imagine, though: namely approved a series of books full of worship music: psalms, mass settings, and hymns. It's a project with more than 40 years' history.
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 638
    So...approval is necessary before using a Mass Setting? SIGH.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Yup.
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 638
    Andrew...tee hee...loved that movie. And thanks. I'm still kind of tentative about what I think I know.

    Melo...thank you. for your answer. and... For being you.
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 783
    necessary? not if your priest says it's not! ;-)
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 638
    sadly you are correct marajoy.