Lamb of God - history question
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 719
    This is a history question. How long have we been able to repeat the phrase "Lamb of God you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us" during the fraction-rite at mass. I'm not looking to discuss the right and wrong of doing this but to know when it came into practice?
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,189
    Since 687, according to the Catholic Encyclopaedia.
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 719
    Ok, so the page you referenced tells me that the Lamb of God was first introduced into the liturgy in 687. In today's mass the "Lamb of God you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us" may be sung as many times is as necessary before we sing "Lamb of God you take away the sins of the world, grant us peace"

    So my question is when did the church say it was OK to repeat the invocation of "Lamb of God you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us" as many times as needed? The Catholic Encyclopaedia does not tell me this.
    Thanked by 1E_A_Fulhorst
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,189
    Well, still in the 1965 missal it is said three times; but in Musicam Sacram (1967) it's allowed to be repeated "as often as necessary" (para. 34). So probably "in 1967" is the answer.
    Thanked by 3Don9of11 PMulholland E_A_Fulhorst
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    If I recall, the original method only in included the "have mercy on us" and was already repeated as much as necessary for the fraction to occur. It was later reduced to three repetitions, then even later changed to include the "grant us peace".
    Thanked by 2Don9of11 E_A_Fulhorst
  • PMulholland
    Posts: 120
    From the latter half of the 8th cent. is found the earliest direct reference to the Agnus Dei (Lucca, biblioteca capitolare, Cod. 490 Liber Pontificalis Pope Sergius I (687 - 701): "at the time of the fraction of the body of the Lord 'Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis' should be sung by both clergy and people."
    The Venerable Bede confirms the existence of the Agnus Dei in 725.
    There are also many hypotheses that place the Agnus Dei earlier than Pope Sergius.
    Further, it appears over the 9th Cent. that other than the fraction, it was sung during the Kiss of Peace or during Communion. The Agnus Dei was certainly fixed by the late 8th cent. Pertinent to us is that a 3 fold repetition is evidenced in the Amiens sacramentary dating from the latter half of the 9th cent. All of this should be supplemented by the presence of troped verses and embellishments which according to Atkinson, are much harder to place.
    The first Ordo Romanus, just after 700, indicates the schola cantorum to sing the Agnus Dei through the fraction. A second edition later in the 8th century directs that the Schola should continue until the fraction is complete.

    There's some history. I think Andrew pointed out the most useful recent info.
    BTW, I think 687 as definite date for the introduction of the Agnus Dei to the Roman Rite as very misleading and possibly totally wrong. It was not yet a universal Roman Rite and many differences occur as noted above.
    What matters most is the refinement of the Liturgy and its organic growth to the present.
    Thanked by 1E_A_Fulhorst
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