Little White Guest - music
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 699
    I have been looking for sheet music for a old communion hymn we used to sing for First Communion. It was called "Little White Guest" I have Googled it pretty much to know that I can't find any music for it. I hoping some one on the forum might know what hymnal this is from or would have the music. Thanks in advance

    A couple verses are:

    You've come to my heart dearest Jesus
    I'm holding you close to my breast
    I'm telling you over and over
    You are welcome Oh little white guest

    I love you, I love you my Jesus
    Oh please do not think I am bold
    Of course you just know that I love you
    But I'm sure you like to be told

    Now that you've come dearest Jesus
    to nestle so close to my breast
    I'll whisper I love you my Jesus
    You are welcome Oh little white guest

    And when I shall meet you in heaven
    My soul will then lean on Thy breast
    And you will recall our fond meeting
    When you were my little white guest
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,196
    Hi, Don. A friend who specializes in devotional hymns says he'll be sending me a copy; I'll see if he can sign on here and perhaps post it directly.
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 699
    Thank you chonak, he sent me a pm.
  • Could you guys post a copy on here when you have it? Sounds like a really nice hymn. Thanks.
    Thanked by 2Chrism oldhymns
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,466
    Forgive me but- please, no. I mean- by all means share copies for whatever academic reason, but- please do not use this hymn in liturgy. It is weird, trite, maudlin, oddly childish. The reference to the Blessed Sacrament (I assume) as "little white guest" is... infantile. The whole thing.. .it's just bad.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    ^^^^^ AMEN, AMEN AAAAAAAAMEN!!!!!!!
  • Our Lord is not Caspar the friendly ghost. It's syrupy, and kinda wierd. My guess is that it's a First Holy Communion preconcliar holdover, written by someone's very sweet and not-so-poetic Aunt Lu, or maybe a second grade teacher (no offense to sweet aunts and teachers everwhere).

    Breast and guest is used three times.
    KATHY, we need a hymn intervention!

    First Communion hymns with rich content
    ave verum
    adoro te devote/ Godhead here in hiding
    panis angelicus
    anima Christi/ soul of my Savior
    Lord, who at thy first Eucharist
    Jesus my Lord, my God, my all (a little too sweet but with more meat)

    I mean no offense, truly, but I plea that people give children something more solid, less kiddie cute. The hymn referenced is like musical cotton candy at the heavenly banquet. Catholic kids deserve better.
    Thanked by 1Jeffrey Morse
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 699
    Relax people this hymn will not be used in the Liturgy. While the hymns listed by MaryAnn are beautiful, ave verum, panis angelicus and others (and thank you, at least they are not me and you songs), they are in my opinion a bit much for 2nd graders to sing...with the exception of Soul of My Savior, that's a fairly simple hymn tune to learn. I appreciate the input from others as it is always educational to hear other opinions.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,965
    Please post a copy. I likely will not use it, but would like it for my files - translated, "archives."
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,466
    Don...
    Gregorian Chant hymns and the like are NOT too much for 2nd graders.
    Teach those kids Adoro Te Devote (in Latin), you won't be sorry.
    Thanked by 2Ben Kathy
  • Don, I hear you about difficulty. It seems hard, but...
    Second graders in our parish program sing all of those songs regularly, except for 'Lord, who at Thy'. In fact, they have Ave verum memorized.

    Kids singing the S and A parts on the Lambilotte Panis is the stuff of angels. Older kids can sing the A if needed. An adult choir can fill out ATB also.

    Kudos to you for planning this so far in advance. I wish I could say as much.
    Thanked by 1Kathy
  • It should be used in Liturgy when appropriate.

    I am sure that it was written by a sister or nun who was married to Christ and wore a wedding ring.

    There are people aged 60 and older who sang this when they received their First Communion. And people of the same age who heard Mother Beloved sung while they went to the Mary Altar (every church had one....doesn't your church) to lay flowers at the feet of the Blessed Virgin.

    For people of that age use of these hymns in liturgies commemorating events in their lives - wedding anniversaries, funerals, is entirely appropriate. It's the same Mass that was said when these were sung. It may be in English, but the Mass is the Mass.

    Pastoral concerns outweigh our dislike for this music. And, if it was your grandmother's or great-great-grandmothers wish that this be sung at your Communion or Wedding....

    I send out Mother Beloved frequently, especially in springtime. Two days ago I sent it and got this reply:


    Thank you for your quick response in regards to the hymn "Mother Beloved". My mother is very ill and this song is very special to her. It put a big smile on her face!

    Thank you again,
    Kathleen
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,466
    >>Pastoral concerns outweigh our dislike for this music.

    Does the same thing apply to the music I grew up with?
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    On balance, as much as I am really disliking this text, I think it could have utility outside of liturgy, for devotion. Or a prayer for the children to silently recite before communing. But I think such a text is inappropriate for the liturgy, to which we should bring our best and noblest. I'm not going to lay that down as law, though I'd urge anyone considering using it to carefully consider whether this hymn is truly worthy enough for the liturgy.
    Thanked by 1chonak
  • Same question as Adam.
    People use that rationale for songs that should be phased out and die a natural death all the time.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • I, too, would love a copy of LIttle White Guest. Thanks.
  • Chrism
    Posts: 869
    As an aside, can we please make an effort to use accurate language about end of life issues? The only one I see arguing here for this song to die a real "natural death" is Noel. I say "Bring it Back!"

    The mystagogical content of this child's poem is richer than that of many hymns. To take one example of a hymn that it surpasses on that score--"Lord Who At Thy First Eucharist" which, written by a Protestant, is totally devoid of any clear reference to transubstantiation, or even consubstantiation for that matter. First Holy Communion is not the Chair of Unity Octave.

    "Little White Guest" makes clear that the Host received is a Person with whom we can have a personal relationship, in fact a superior eternal Person with the name "Jesus" who is the goal of our eternal life, who deserves and desires acts of love, even if it seems repetitive to the person praying. The song encourages spending an appropriate time making an act of Thanksgiving after Communion, and implies that how we spend our eternity in Heaven will depend in large part on the fervor with which we make Holy Communion here on earth. How many other hymns, traditional or modern, do the same?

    Simplicity of vocabulary is sometimes a good reason to select a text, not to reject it. "Godhead here in hiding" expresses transubstantiation clearly, but what is a "Godhead"? Does a child know that a "Godhead" is the same as "God"? First Holy Communion is not just a time for rote learning (ask a child who has learned the Pledge of Allegiance what "indivisible" means), but the beginning of true participation in the Holy Eucharist, which means that the young communicant needs to learn to pray as any communicant ought, though not necessarily in the same words.
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 470
    "Little White Guest" makes clear that the Host received is a Person with whom we can have a personal relationship, in fact a superior eternal Person with the name "Jesus" who is the goal of our eternal life, who deserves and desires acts of love, even if it seems repetitive to the person praying.

    On the other had, it suggests that the Guest (as opposed to the Host) is small and white, which is not the case. The accidental qualities of the Host are not to be predicated of the substance. (S.T. III, Q. 77, a 1).

    (Now I'm wondering if it's intentionally punning on Host/Guest, which seems a bit vulgar for a hymn.)
    Thanked by 1Paul F. Ford
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,466
    I think it is a weird pun on the two meanings of Host- at least, that's how I took it upon first reading. And yes, we need to be clear that what we adore in the Blessed Sacrament is the True Presence, the Substance of Christ's Body, not the accident of bleached-flour and cardboard flavor.

    There's also a weird, unintentional-but-still-there racist undertone (Jesus is white. White is pure and good.)
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,466
    Also, Jesus is not our guest.

    Come, risen Lord, and deign to be our guest;
    nay, let us be thy guests; the feast is thine;
    thyself at thine own board make manifest
    in thine own Sacrament of Bread and Wine.
    Thanked by 1Paul F. Ford
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I agree with Chrism as to the value of this as a devotion for children. I differ in whether it should be sung at Mass, however.

    Take a look at the Communion proper for the Mass at which one wishes to sing this. Is it really worthy of replacing the proper chant? Really?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,196
    Every Mass includes an allusion to Jesus as a guest: "Domine, non sum dignus..."
  • I'm 27, and I still remember my First Communion song:

    We celebrate God's special gift
    Jesus in the Eucharist
    For you, for me
    For all God's family
    For you, for me
    God's love will always be.

    I think "Little White Guest" is a huge improvement.
    How about "God Has Chosen Me?"

    God Has chosen me, God has chosen me
    To bring good news to the poor
    God has chosen me, God has chosen me
    To bring new sight to those searching for light...

    I think it's important to know where we've been before we start tearing apart a seemingly sound, simple communion song for second graders to sing. If there were ever a time when a "trite," "oddly childish" song was permitted during Mass, it should be when second graders are asked to sing and understand it. Sure, Latin is wonderful, but when you are trying to teach transubstantiation to second graders, I think throwing the theology into a different language would just muddy the waters a little bit.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,196
    Here's a copy of the song, for those who have asked:
  • Maureen
    Posts: 678
    It sounds like a translated Irish expression, honestly. Especially since it's coupled with the comment about saying "Welcome," which was one of the many common silent or sotto voce comments that Irish Catholic congregations were supposed to think/whisper after the Consecration.

    Btw, I just found out that "Leanabh an Aigh," (the Scottish Christmas carol whose tune is used for "Morning Is Broken") is actually included in one of the volumes of Carmina Gadelica (Vol. 3). The translation is called "The Child of Glory." It's public domain in the US. (And of course, so are the original Gaelic words by Big Mary Macpherson, given how much older they are than Carmina G.)
    Thanked by 1Chrism
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 699
    This melody is different then what we used to sing in our parish. I never had the sheet music to compare it to, this is interesting.
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • oldhymnsoldhymns
    Posts: 228
    Sure, "Little White Guest" may sound "corny" or even "hokey" by today's standards; but it's a lot better than when the singer puts himself/herself in the place of God; i.e., "I am the Bread of Life" and many of the other ditties that are in today's missalettes.

    The hymn was extremely popular prior to Vatican II; it was often sung as a First Communion hymn. In fact, several Catholic publishing houses produced "holy cards" of the words to the hymn and the first Communicants were given the card as a memory of their special day. Ask anyone over 60 or so--they may remember it.

    "Soul of My Savior" is a wonderful hymn, and there are several melodies for it. However, did you ever try explaining the words to this hymn to a second grader? A nun once told me she did try--and the task was well-nigh impossible.

    There are many good Communion hymns. Here are a couple you may find useful.

    In This Sacrament Sweet Jesus (two different melodies--see St. Basil's and Sunday School Hymnal)
    Jesus, Thou Art Coming (several different melodies--see St. Basil's, St. Gregory's, and Standard Catholic Hymnals)
    O Jesus Christ Remember (Aurelia melody from the Westminster Hymnal--it is now in the Vatican II Hymnal)
    My Soul Doth Long for Thee (from Our Lady of Mercy Hymnal, by the Sisters of Mercy, Providence, RI).
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    "it's a lot better than when the singer puts himself/herself in the place of God; i.e., "I am the Bread of Life" and many of the other ditties that are in today's missalettes."

    That's your opinion, and I disagree.
    Thanked by 2Spriggo Adam Wood
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    The worst part about these "traditional hymns" is that they give a bad name to all hymns. Catholics associate the word "hymn" with sugar-sweet lyrics, stomach-turning chromaticism, 6/8 meter, all accompanied by voix celeste, tremolo, and warbled out by Left-Foot Lucy.

    And then they get up in arms, RIGHTLY SO, when we want organs and hymns in the Mass. Not because of any objection to "Praise to the Holiest in the Height," but because they associate traditional forms with bad music.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,502
    MaryAnn, I have written something. I'll have to scan it and post it later. The original tune (mine) is kinda Barney. The words go:

    No longer wheat, no longer bread,
    No longer grapes, no longer wine,
    But something more excellent, perfect and true:
    The Body and Blood of the Lord,
    The Body and Blood of the Lord.

    No longer living for ourselves,
    No longer dying for ourselves,
    But something more excellent, perfect and true:
    To live every day for the Lord.
    To give every day to the Lord.

    (a couple of verses I can't remember, about the epiclesis)

    Praise to the Father and the Son
    And Holy Spirit, Three in One:
    Perfectly excellent, perfectly true:
    Forever and ever the Lord,
    Forever and ever the Lord.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,502
    I wrote that on retreat after throwing the Gather hymnal (bread, wine, bread, wine) across the room. http://www.splendoroftruth.com/curtjester/2004/02/missal-defense/

  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I suspect that Professor Thomas Day would likely "know" this hymn, and may have actually had it in mind (conscious or not) when surgically critiquing the failure of marrying "Irish" sentimental balladry to equally sentimental texts on the heels of the Victorian era.
    I have to admit that my criteria regimen for evaluating a "song" in the generic sense begins first with the melody, not the text. That may explain to some why, for example, I would go on to examine the texts if the tune were "Kingsfold....Abbot's leigh....Slane....or even O waly waly." That also is why I'm disinclined to go further when asked to consider the worthiness of "Skye boat song.....Derry aire...." and such.
    Our repertoire has, thankfully, moved passed the confusion of emotion with solemnity. Unfortunately, many of our well meaning musicians have not yet made that jump.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,965
    Our pastor of 38 years, who passed away in 1997, was of Germanic ancestry. He steadfastly maintained that the Irish ruined the Catholic Church in the United States. YMMV, an appropriated melo-ism.
  • Little White Guest - saccharin music replaced.

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    Thanked by 1Chrism
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 699
    I received another version of this communion hymn from Catholic New World staff writer Dolores M., Archdiocese of Chicago. There was an article that appeared on their website http://www.catholicnewworld.com/cnwonline/2012/0325/clips.aspx

    I wrote to her and she sent me a copy. This is the version that we used in my parish of St. Mary. There is one minor difference...when we sang this we put an "A" note on the words in the 3rd measure "my" and "Thy", just above the "F" note.
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