Actually....you bring to mind AGO certification.

Why not offer exams resulting in certification like the AGO? They have authorization from the NY State Board of Regents for their degrees. How about tying into a college like Ave Maria?

There are those who want to learn and receive evaluation of their abilities that they can post on a wall or in a resume.

I've not suggested that anyone pay a penny. I am sure that there are cantors out there that would make wonderful singers of chant who could easily intone chants for the schola and choir.

Their choirs were disbanded, they were shunted downstairs where the guitar group plays and instead of being part of a group of like-minded singers, now sing, alone, over a microphone, music that can be hard to sing. They are often frustrated with their role.

Many see these people as a distraction, unneeded and useless. I'm one of them. But that does not mean that they are not Catholics who love liturgy and are doing this only because everything else a person who likes to sing has been destroyed, leaving the only option being part of a 1970's guitar group.

Also, why should a qualified chant director not have the opportunity to be judged by her peers or his, and receive evaluation of their skills? Would this not be a natural job of an organization that offers training at the highest level? The fact that I am an AAGO says that at one time in my life I was able to play well enough and take exams that established my ability. Could people not take an exam when they are ready, having been prepared by paying to attend a colloquium? Should the colloquium be free or should it be damned because it requires people to pay money?

Is Musica Sacra just another scam and scheme to make money at the expense of already underpaid church musicians?

I'm offended by the idea I am suggesting schemes to make money of already underpaid church musicians and the thought that Musica Sacra is in that business as well.

Remember that he who throws mud loses ground and it appears that it's not being made any more.

Your assumptions of my and Adam's post are way off base, friend.

How about a short book like the faq on sacred music but for cantors? history of, common practices, girm rules, responsibilities, etc.

How about online classes? Free to share.

Want certification? Pay an instructor to evaluate your work. (Mail in a cassette of your chanting? And a Polaroid of your Psalm-crowd-engaging-action?)

The AGO program does not require attendance, offers training materials and charges only for taking the exam. No one has to buy the training materials.

Just like Musica Sacra Colloquium and Intensive, the charges are only to make it possible for the program to happen. The Colloquium may want to consider having a final day exam as an option, members pay an additional fee to take an exam and walk out with certification if they pass, for everyone that attends at their levels

If we were to survey churches across the US, you'd find that statistically very few cantors are paid. These people, like schola directors, would be more apt to want to pay for training than paid singers, who need to make money to make a living.

All the cantor training done over the last 40 years has been in the wrong direction. Shouldn't cantors be invited to learn about Chabanel, SEP and more? They have equal influence over music programs, as much as DM's, since they can bitch and moan about music they do not like...and force congregations to be stuck with OCP forever.

Show them something else. Show them how to sing musically and coordinate with the organist so they so not have to wave their arms, convince them to sing as part of a small group of cantors so that they still sing the verses solo, but have a small group with them that sings the refrain....and you have created a schola.

Cantors like what they are doing. They can and will get other cantors to sing at their Mass like this.

Watch the vespers at Notre Dame for inspiration.

"I guess that my main concerns are (1) cost to participants and (2) wide availability or accessibility of what is being proposed. " These are things that should clear here, of all places, are not a problem and are, in fact, what the group is all about. Anyone who joins this group and then creates a project solely to make money off of it - gets discouraged real quick and drops out.

A certification is a great idea. There would be cost involved just to break even. CMAA would need to be involved in order to make sure that everyone is getting trained the same way so that the certification actually means something.

We always need to remember: we are CMAA.

This means that "CMAA needs to..." turns into "we need to..." which then needs to become: "I want to do this, would anyone like to help?"

We are CMAA. WE make it happen.

It is rare for a job listing today to specify organ and much more common to see that the DM be able to play piano, guitar and be a vocalist. This is due to priests who think that we are plumbers, brought in to do a job.

They have not been educated in latin or to understand the role of a church musician. Both are severe deficiencies.

I have nothing but the sweat of my brow. Mr. Mellophone? Are you up for being the brains of an outfit?

This reminds me of what the old Gregorian Institute of America used to do:

CERTIFICATE AND
DEGREE COURSES

All programs are adapted to the needs of the Catholic Church musician and are pursued through convenient home-study and resident summer school courses.

Courses include:
• Liturgy
• Choir Training
• Church Music Repertoire
• Polyphony
• Church Music Legislation
• Elements of Gregorian Chant
• Gregorian Chant Rhythm
• Chant Conducting - Chironomy
• Gregorian Style
• Chant Accompaniment
• Gregorian Modality
• Psalmody
• Keyboard Harmony
• Classical Harmony
• Modal Counterpoint
• Solfege

The Gregorian Institute of America is authorized by Laval University, Quebec, to grant the degree of Bachelor of Church Music, and by the Gregorian Institute of Paris to grant diplomas in Gregorian Chant proficiency.

Catholic Choirmasters Certificate

This program includes studies in Liturgy, Choir and Voice Training, Gregorian Chant, Modality, Psalmody and Accompaniment. Training is completed under a world - famous faculty at the Gregorian Institute National Summer School.

Personally, I would like to see things broken out a little.
One certificate for chant and schola direction and extra certs for instrument proficiencies.

On line courses (private Youtube, or just downloadable videos, etc.) for lessons with either a live performance test and/or 2 day workshop/testing for final. I am willing to take this to AZ State University, or some community college but someone will have to provide me with a detailed plan.

Jeffrey Coggins- great. We need 1-5 institutes of sacred music in the U.S., with varying levels and degrees awarded.

Could savvy bishops attach such institutes to their seminaries? Those with the facilities would then add instructors. That would also go a long way toward reaching seminarians.

I like the bit by bit stop-gap stuff because it's so badly needed, incl you-tube videos, etc., and I also like something more thorough like Jeffrey mentions above.

Another thought- offer levels-
1) cantor
2) cantor/ section leader
3) cantor/ section leader/ schola director
4) cantor/ section leader/ schola director/ choir director

Everything worthwhile is an uphill road - that's why we're given each other!