• Ave Maria!
    I am learning keyboards and would like to learn Liturgical organ. How do I do that? And does learning classical music help me?
    Thanked by 1R J Stove
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,333
    In what area of the country (or the world!) do you live? You'll definitely need to work with a qualified teacher to become competent at playing the organ in a liturgical context.
    Thanked by 2Gavin R J Stove
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,988
    One thing that could possibly help you. Quite a bit of music was written for manuals alone, or for harmonium, and doesn't require use of feet. Some of the French harmonium music is based on Gregorian chants. I think Kevin Mayhew puts out some books for manuals. If you can play keyboard, some of this music could work for organ without having pedal technique mastered.
  • HH,
    Charles gives good advice and is quite right. There is music to help you along and it
    can be successful.
    Learning basic fingering on the keyboard will help you and following a curriculum with an instructor is paramount.
    Even without being an accomplished organist you can lend beauty to the liturgy so long as you keep within your skill level and choose music along the lines of what Charles has suggested. This could be the seeds planted for something greater down the road.
    Look at early keyboard compositions as well, that could have been intended for a portative organ.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • May I suggest the book "Organ Technique: Modern & Early" (or something like that) by George Ritchie and George Stauffer. A really superb book. I bought it some time ago as an undergrad organ major, but have since used it with beginners, up through advanced students. I still reference it sometimes myself! http://amzn.com/0195137450
  • irishtenor, I live in the country with the world's most beautiful flag, ie Sweden.
    and whee do one find qualified teachers?
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    Usually the easiest way to find qualified teachers is by asking your parish's organist. There are also some self-study organ methods on archive.org, but without a teacher one easily becomes accustomed to technical errors.
  • You may be right about the flag. It's certainly in the top tier.
    Pity the white and gold fleur de lis of pre-1789 does not fly these days.

    And, learning classical music will indeed help you. It will improve your whole life, including your organ aspirations.
    For teachers? Enquire at Goteborg University. They have several new organs built in the early Baroque style which are marvelous for playing Buxtehude, et al. I believe the organist there is Hans David.
  • TThanks for the answers. Tack för svaren!
    How much autodidact can you be when learning to plsy the organ? I guess you could learn the intelectual ideas of playing but to play you need a teacher?. How should we deal with this question?
    Thanked by 1R J Stove
  • Self-teaching is possible, but if you adopt a bad habit and keep practicing with it, it'll be hard to lose when it becomes a problem. A teacher detects these and helps head them off at the pass (apologies to Hedley Lamarr). Among the many other benefits of learning with a good teacher.

    You could teach yourself painstakingly measure by measure how to play the Duruflé Epiphany prelude (which I tried to do), but even if you do and can perform it, that doesn't mean you've acquired the necessary skills to be a church organist. I know I didn't!
    Thanked by 1R J Stove
  • nicolem
    Posts: 11
    Regarding the need for a teacher, I think an important aspect to realize is that especially in the environment of playing organ music (or any music) for the Liturgy, we as musicians need to form ourselves in the traditions of style. In the Liturgy we are not simply playing for our ourselves, but for something greater than ourselves that touches many other people and directly affects their worship. If you had said that you just wanted to learn more about the organ and organ music for your own pleasure, then perhaps a teacher is not needed.

    But if you're looking to do liturgical work, I personally think it is of the utmost importance to study directly with a teacher who is experienced in the Liturgy (starting with your local church's organist is a good idea!). ....I myself have only recently come to the organ, and despite having earned a Masters in Classical Flute Performance where I definitely have a good grasp of Western music, I still find it necessary to take lessons. Sacred music is a completely different animal with a vastly different repertoire and set of traditions, and personally, I can't learn enough!
  • R J StoveR J Stove
    Posts: 302
    These days, a lot of fairly undemanding (but inherently worthwhile) organ music is available either on the Internet itself - this is most likely to be the case when the music's old enough to have fallen out of copyright - or via second-hand sources. Don't overlook these avenues of obtaining material which will serve any organist well in a church music context. Even a search on eBay can yield nuggets of gold.

    In the 1960s and 1970s an Englishman, C. H. Trevor, issued various collections of generally rather uncomplicated organ pieces. Some of this music was for manuals only; some of it included pretty straightforward pedal parts. I think the series ultimately reached Volume Seven. A university library would be a good place to begin seeking those books.

    Meanwhile, from what I have read, there seems still to be substantial church-related, artistically serious organ activity in the Scandinavian lands. Would the following link be of any help? It's hard to know, given that I've never visited that part of the world (I live in Australia).

    http://goart.gu.se/gioa/w-1.htm
  • Henrik,

    Learning Classical music is definitely helpful since most liturgical music of beauty is structured the same as classical music.

    Learning on keyboards will help you get ready to play the liturgical organ.

    An experienced organ teacher with a liturgical background will lead to to music which is appropriate for your abilities now and in the future. In addition, they will teach you certain special techniques needed on the organ and prepare you, as well, to begin playing pedals.

    It is not necessary to play the pedals, but when you can there is much more music that you can play.

    So you need:

    A teacher who will teach an adult - which means they will be aware that you will be more apt to spend time autodidact than a child would and need to be taught differently. Teaching children requires presenting them with ideas. Teaching adults involves answering questions along with presenting ideas. Some teachers love this aspect of teaching adults, some do not.

    And it absolutely has to be someone who does not believe the fallacy that you must play the piano before the organ. Most of what you learn in piano playing technique does not apply to the organ and is a waste of time if you only want to play organ. In fact, you'd be better taking harpsichord lessons - almost all harpsichord technique applies directly to playing the organ. This is how Buxtehude and Bach learned and I have never read a bad word about their playing technique!

    [let the arguments over what I have written begin]
    Thanked by 1ContraBombarde
  • FNJ, why would that comment stir argument? You couldn't have put that better!

    I have no idea where that fallacy of learning piano first came into the picture either, but I didn't subscribe to it when I was a kid either. My first organ professor told me I had to learn 7 years of the piano before he would teach me the organ. I said to him (mind you at about 8-9 yrs old) "you want my money, you'll teach me what I want, and that's the organ." At 8-9yrs old, I didn't believe the piano or drums had a place in the church. Much has changed since then, but I always prefer an organ to a piano in church.

    To the OP, get a great organ teacher, and you'll be very thankful in the long run. The organ is a phenomenal instrument, and with great instruction, will open your doors to many opportunities.
  • Teacher or at least a mentor who regularly listens to your playing helps you develop in the right direction. They notice bad habits and help you correct them.
  • I have a friend organist in Järfälla, who I am sure may be able to advise you, contact me at: noel@frogmusic.com, if you like.
  • What keyboard/synth should I buy if I want to learn to play the organ?
  • Roland C-200 - however, for good liturgical keyboard technique, get a Roland C-30 Harpsichord - it includes organ Principals 8 & 4 and an 8' gedeckt but....most important, tracker touch. Any midi keyboard is playable, but the precise attack and release on the harpsichord and articulate stops is a real plus in developing technique for clean, crisp playing. But, as Hartley suggest, you can always pick up a couple of midi keyboards at garagesales cheap and use something like j-organ or hauptwerk.

    I have a C-30 here, replacing my older C-80 harpsichord which is playing chamber music in the mountains.
  • Get two 61-note Midi keyboards, hook them up to your computer and use J-organ (free download).
  • now I'm confused. Should I buy a harpsichord with only one keyboard when most organ do at least have two keyboards + pedals.
    btw, I already have a keyboard at home so I would need something really good (but not too big or expensive). I could find the NORD C2D but I don't know if it's good and priceworthy
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,988
    You really need to talk to a local organist or organ teacher. None of us can know where you are in your abilities, what is available in your area, or what you really need. We are too far away to give detailed advice.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • R J StoveR J Stove
    Posts: 302
    If you really want a good instrument and are prepared to pay serious money, there is always the digital organ option. I started off with a Johannus two-manual practice instrument (slightly abbreviated pedal compass, alas) and later switched to the Allan two-manual practice instrument - imported from Pennsylvania - which is now in my apartment (it has a full pedal compass, hallelujah, and all the stops I need, plus a socket for inserting headphones so that I don't disturb neighbors). Judge for yourself:

    http://www.allenorgan.com/
  • Hank,

    Many US organists have a piano or keyboard at home, relying on the use of an organ at a church with pedalboard. The organist suggested to you by my friend in Sweden you are in touch with can advise you. The NORD has a light touch, much lighter than you will find on many pipe organs in Sweden - as Charles W says above, your organ teacher can guide you. The Roland harpsichord I suggested for manual work because of its touch. There is a man in Sweden who builds MIDI pedalboards that can be added to this harpsichord or to any digital keyboard for home practice. You can do a search under SUZUKI ORGAN to find him. Be advised that many US-built organs have 32 note AGO pedalboards while most organs in your area are 30 note, usually BDO. Once again, your teacher can advise.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    GrandOrgue is also another good option. Not quite as flexible and modifiable as jOrgan when it comes to the console, but easier (at least for me) to set up with the MIDI keyboard(s), and there's a fair amount of options you can dig into if you want.

    I currently have a one manual GrandOrgue rig running on the top of my dresser, right between my bookcase and my sock basket... :)
  • BDO Pedalboards are much simpler to build than AGO ones.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedal_keyboard - Wikipedia article has some great diagrams and pictures showing the differences

    http://www.familjenpalo.se/vpo/pedalboard - A detailed DIY on how to build a BDO Pedalboard.

    If I were in a country where BDO pedalboards were common, I would have merely used two or three midi keyboards and then made my own pedalboard for a practice instrument at home. However, in Australia the AGO concave radiating type is considered standard (although there are plenty of other variations out there).