What's the right term?
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Please forgive me for my naive question.
    What is the appropriate term to use for 'Program' that you print out for the congregation for the list of music and copy of music for the Mass? I heard a parish calling 'Worship Aid,' which I didn't like. I was saying the other day 'where is the program for the Mass?' And I felt odd to say it.
    Mia
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Oh, this is a fun topic. We've never found the right word or phrase. I tried "worship aid" but felt ridiculous saying it; it seems like goofy New Age cliche or something. "Liturgy aid" isn't any better. I think we finally settled on calling it no formal name at all, and instead just refer to the "program." This seems to work. Any other ideas?
  • Dan F.Dan F.
    Posts: 205
    Fun indeed. "Program" sounds too much like a concert sheet to me, implying entertainment. "Let's see what's on the program today." How about "Order of worship"?
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Program, well --, sounds a bit p-r-ofane (everyday use?) I wish there was something else.
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Well, but it is not really an order of worship right? It usually only includes the sung parts that are not otherwise in the Missallete, just the stuff the people need that is not available in other places. Isn't Order of Worship something more comprehensive?
  • Why title it? Just put the parts on it and title it with the liturgical day. No one will look at it and wonder what it is!
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    In protestant churches, the "bulletin" is not only a place for announcements and events, but also always contains the music and order for service. Hence, I usually use the term "bulletin" for such things.

    For Catholics, there isn't a correct term. When I would announce a hymn in the bulletin, I would sometimes just say "the hymn in in the papers you have." Actually, I think I mostly used the term "leaflet". Worship aid, program, leaflet, bulletin, paper thingies, it really doesn't matter what you call them.

    Oh, and sometimes I would use the term "order of worship", but as Jeff points out that implies something besides just music. And I would typically fill my programs with everything that a protestant would need to understand what's going on and participate. I always find it so helpful when I visit protestant churches that they have a paper with everything explained, and I think how awful it must be for one to visit a Catholic church and never know what's going on! And don't say "it's all in the Missalette" because most protestants don't even know what that is!
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    I should be a better sport about this, but I must say that I'm ready tired of printing these things. What a fantastic waste of paper! I was just telling Arlene that if we had the Parish Book of Chant, none of this would be necessary. I hope for the day!
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Jeff: in protestant churches, this is handled by the secretary. Alas, I don't know any secretaries who have the skill with graphic design (putting music in MS Word) to turn out a high-quality program as would be necessary for Catholic churches. It turns out I love graphic design, and I may consider it as a career for when I finally get fed up with Church music. However, I do find it EXTREMELY tiring to do those things up only for someone to make fun of it because you put in an extra E in "Wee Three Kings" or got the year wrong or forgot to put the hymnal number for the Latin Gloria in it...
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    oh you mean the weekly kids' game called "Find the Typo." Yes, that is a sport in our parish.
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    Why not call it "The Libellus" ("booklet") and put that title on the front page? Carefully pronounce it li-BELL-us. Just be certain the office spell checker doesn't convert that to "libellous"!
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    I like that. 'Libellus'. I'm going with Libellus. Of course I have to explain to people what it is at first, like other things that people don't know. They will get it eventually.
    (Because we sing on weekday Masses for now, we don't have a bulletin, and I need a name for it.)
    Thanks,
    Mia
  • Dan F.Dan F.
    Posts: 205
    "I should be a better sport about this, but I must say that I'm ready tired of printing these things. What a fantastic waste of paper!"

    I agree. The disposable seasonal missalettes aren't any better. How much do those things cost year after year? I repeat again here: Why cannot Catholic parishes just use the hymns in the hymnal? It seems to me that even if the one in the pews isn't ideal one could at least find an acceptable subset, no matter what your preference. If your parish has an awful hymnal, then add up the dollars saved after 3 years of no disposable stuff and pitch a better hymnal to your pastor. Then just post the hymns on the board!

    (I write as a mere choir member who grew up in a Methodist church that used the hymnal. My wife grew up in a "green hymnal" ELCA congregation. Perhaps there are finer difficulties with which I am unfamiliar.)
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    I probably stole this from my brother, but I always just call it "the printed sheet" ("la feuille blanche," "la feuille verte"). It does not apologize for the physical reality, nor does it pretend to be something abstract which it is not.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Why cannot Catholic parishes just use the hymns in the hymnal?

    Because the hymns in the hymnal aren't any good. Every American Catholic hymnal ever written, with the exception of the New St. Basil Hymnal, is irredeemable trash. OH, one other good one: Parish Book of Chant! Really though, everything else NEEDS supplements (and I'd argue even the PBC does) and has some good hymns that shouldn't even be used because of severe editing.

    Besides, as I mentioned, it's a simple matter of hospitality to visitors, non-Catholics, and confused parishioners to have all the music readily accessible. Unless you DO have a hymn board which can contain the Introit translation/Entrance hymn number, Kyrie location, Gloria, Sanctus, Offertory hymn/translation, Memorial Acclamation, Amen, and by THIS point I'm ALREADY out of space on every hymn board I've seen. To say nothing of the music for chanting the dialogs of the Mass! In short, I don't see how parishes get by without a leaflet, but perhaps that's a cause of the anemic singing in most parishes? As usual, the Anglicans have it right.
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Yes, I always think it is hilarious and pathetic to go into any local protestant church and pick up the hymnal. It is hardbound. Tons of great stuff. Beautifully laid out. One song per page, pretty much. Clear numbers. And written in 4 parts that are easy to sing.

    Then you go to the Catholic parish just down the street. Throw-away junk, and this offensive melody line with no parts, like we are all stupid. Arlene pointed out a funny thing: if we are really too stupid to read parts of a hymn, why print music at all? Anyway, it is just incredible and embarrassing. The first time I ever entered a Catholic Church and found one of these missalettes I was really taken aback. My first uncharitable thought was: are these people all musically illiterate?

    Anyway, this was one thing behind the production of the PBC. so many people have complained about those stapled red EF booklets, the photcopied sheets, the shabby material in the pews. We really need something that is beautiful and wonderful to hold, something as serious and substantial as the faith itself. That was part of the drive, in addition to just needing some resources that has chant plus translations.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,927
    In my area, the local Catholic tradition has been unison singing as far back as I remember. It's still mostly that way in the hymns we use. The protestants were the ones who sang the 4-part hymns. There have been some decent Catholic hymnals - I liked the hymn selection in the older version of Worship, although I haven't seen the new one. I inherited Ritual Song and will have to use it until the new missal is printed, then we will buy new hymnals. Missalettes are only used for daily masses and not on Sundays. There is an 8-foot hymn board up front with 4-inch numbers with adequate space for listing everything needed. I get tired of taking it down and putting it back up and have threatened to hold the door open for anyone who wants to steal it. But I have had no takers on that. And Gavin, I do have the New St. Basil. It's still in print the last time I looked. It will be interesting to see how the new translation of the missal affects hymnals.
  • mjballoumjballou
    Posts: 993
    "Worship aid" always makes me snicker because it reminds me of things that were advertised in the back pages of magazines when I was growing up. I always admire the beautiful tri-fold leaflets from places like St. Patrick's in NYC. Of course, there's an army of staff there to do the preparation, using the software that's out for that now.

    I grew up with hardbound hymnals and spent several years working with them. Very relaxing. When I took a job in a Catholic church and starting flinging around OCP binders, GIA spiral bound accompaniment editions, etc., I thought I'd landed in liturgical music hell. And that was before I examined the contents! The one problem with hymnals is that if your attendance is good, you won't have enough to go around. (Of course, people could share in Christian charity....) And I remember that many hymnal-using churches I knew did use a leaflet program of some sort for Christmas and Easter to cover that problem.

    Of course, we could stop trying to force the congregation to sing along on everything. They'd pick up what they needed as time went by if the Ordinary remained fairly stable within seasons. And besides - go sit in a pew. A huge number of Catholic churchgoers touch nothing - leaflet, hymnal, missalette, whatever. I take that back - if they can find the bulletin, they're reading that.

    Or we could "line out" the verses like Primitive Baptists.
  • Here's a question. How many of the old-line Protestant churches still sing in parts regularly? Seems like most have succumbed to praise bands.
  • urli
    Posts: 35
    In Dutch we call it (in my parish at least) a "liturgieblaadje" or "liturgy sheet". I don't think it translates well into English though.
  • Deborah
    Posts: 4
    In my last church (high Episcopal) we had an "Order of Service" that had the basic outline for the day, including the readings, prayer book pages, hymn numbers and titles, and the S numbers (service music) when needed. Then there was a "complete version" on longer and thicker paper that was specifically intended for visitors that contained everything more spelled out(including stand, sit, kneel directions) but didn't include the items specific to the week. These were re-usable.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Actually Michael, it seems protestants are only now realizing that not only do people not sing in PARTS, but they're stopping singing altogether. Sound familiar?? Only thing is, they can't seem to figure out why yet. At least that's the impression I gather from blogs; I've seen a few asking why no one sings on the praise songs and conjectures that they just need new praise songs. They're just about 20 years behind Rome.
  • Jan
    Posts: 242
    Order of the Mass
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Yes, I just spoke to a visitor to old-time Baptist church in central Texas who said that in the last year, they have converted from 19th century hymns to praise music. Everyone just sits there like the living dead, not singing a note. So sad. So sad. Meanwhile, the Catholic Church in the same town was making progress last year but this year has a new "director of liturgy" who was all over the sanctuary flapping her arms trying to get everyone to do goofy things. Meanwhile everyone saunter in and sauntered out again like the living dead. I wasn't there but this was the report I just received.
  • Hugh
    Posts: 198
    We call them "pewsheets". When multileaved, they're "mass booklets".
  • I guess we are just in an era where people don't sing together anymore. Singing is seen as a "solo" thing, thanks to American Idol and its spinoffs. When I've had the opportunity to attend praise band services, I hear people singing the choruses, when they know them, but for the most part, the band is "ministering" to the congregation. Oh, I should also say that the songs are generally very lightweight theologically.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    I still vote for 'Libellus'. Sounds holier than vernacular.
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    Would "Kyriale" (or perhaps some variant) be appropriate at all — particularly for the multileaved "Mass booklets" as Hugh said — or must that exclusively refer to the published Kyriale?
  • In the Anglican Use we call them 'Service Folders', or 'Mass Folders'. Everyone gets one on entering the church and knows how to use it. If an announcer came out before mass and said 'Good morning, folks, today's presider is...' or if someone hawked out hymn numbers, etc. from the lectern the church would fall down. There is nothing more un-Catholic in worship, nor more interruptive of true worship, than having the Liturgy peppered with extra-ritual comments and announcements. P.S. - Urli's suggestion of 'liturgieblaadge' or its English equivilant does have a certain cachet; likewise Miacoyne's 'Libellus'.
  • I forgot to mention - there were some above comments about hymnals: here is an English Catholic hymnal which, as one might imagine, is outstanding. I recommend it to every American Catholic choirmaster and parish. Its title is 'The Catholic Hymnbook'; compiled and edited by the London Oratory, and published by Gracewing in 1998 & 2006; ISBN 0 85244 359 5 for the full music (SATB) edition at 25 pounds (roughly $50). There is a melody edition for about half that. Its only shortcoming is that the plainchant hymns are not (as in 'The English Hymnal') in square notation. There are multiple, outstanding, hymns for every major feast, major saint's day, and many lesser ones - something that no American Catholic hymnal of which I am aware can boast. (And, it includes the stanza of 'Ye Watchers & Ye Holy Ones' which is addressed to our Lady - which gets mysteriously left out of many of our Catholic hymnals over here.) This book is a Treasure!
  • Hugh
    Posts: 198
    Perhaps I was not answering the question - I was just thinking of our Latin/English translations for the trad. mass which also includes the recessional hymn. We also put out A4 sized laminated Chant Ordinaries (with Asperges) each Sunday depending on which one we are singing. I think we call these the "ordinary sheets" but I can't be sure.

    Anyway,
    An example of a "pewsheet" - that for this coming Sunday:

    http://members.iinet.com.au/~hugh2/public_html/13PentecostPewSheetLeadUsHeavn'yFather.pdf

    An example of a "mass booklet" - for Palm Sunday (this includes the chant for the people as well.)

    http://www.fidelitybooks.com.au/Hugh/PalmSundayMassBook.pdf

    Apologies for any confusion.

    HH
  • Hugh
    Posts: 198
    Correction re. pewsheet - this Sunday being 12 Pentecost (not 13th), this is the relevant sheet:

    http://members.iinet.com.au/~hugh2/public_html/12PentecostPewSheetForthInThyname.pdf
    HH
  • priorstf
    Posts: 460
    Thanks for the tip on The Catholic Hymnbook, MJO. I contacted the folks at the London Oratory who directed me to Gracewing Publishing who list both The Catholic Hymnbook: Melody (£ 10.00) and The Catholic Hymnbook: Harmony (£ 25.00). Both prices are certainly better than the current Amazon used bookstore price of $150.00+ ! Airmail postage adds only £7.50 for one book. The site: http://www.gracewing.co.uk/
  • Jan
    Posts: 242
    My copy of THE CATHOLIC HYMN BOOK just arrived. I paid (new) EUR 40.22 which included EUR 8.78 to amazon.uk. (Sorry I didn't order
    directly through publisher (Gracewing Publishing).

    The hymn selections and arrangements are terrific (mostly english language). A section in the back includes the Gregorian Masses VIII, XI & XVIII plus a selection a latin hymns all in western notation.

    The layout has the text separated from the music. Does anyone know the layout of the Melody Edition?
  • Jan - The layout of text-music in the melody edition varies. On some hymns there are one or two stanzas under the music with the rest printed below, while in others the music is above and all the stanzas are below. This arrangement does not present the difficulties in reading which some might imagine: it was more common in the 'pew editions' of many hymnals years ago - one readily gets used to glancing at different parts of the page, or simply memorising the tune and reading reading the hymn. Jackson - Our Lady of Walsingham, Houston