C. Hylton Stewart, Psalm 79
  • jchthys
    Posts: 23
    I was wondering if someone had the sheet music to C. Hylton's Stewart's Psalm 79 (as sung in the St Paul’s Cathedral Psalter). This is the same tune as Psalm 90 in The World of Psalms.
    I don't (yet) own a copy of the psalter that I know contains this tune, but it's public domain, and I'm sure someone can have it and share it.
    Thanks!
  • This does not help find it for you, though I may have it and will look, but....

    For people unfamiliar with AC, ANY psalm can be sung to ANY psalm tone. Psalm tones are usually four notes and then six notes.
  • jchthys
    Posts: 23
    Yes, I love how the tunes are interchangeable! however, I really would like to get the music for this exact tune—it's one of my favorites.
  • It is a great tune and here it is.
    Thanked by 1jchthys
  • To begin singing Anglican Chant, you sing the numbers.

    Try it. Once you have it down, let me know and I will post the next step. It's easy, really it is.
  • Simon
    Posts: 153
    I have a copy of the St. Paul Cathedral Psalter (an older edition and the most recent as issued with the recent psalm project recordings). Can scan for you and put online here. Save you working out the pointing in an own edition.
  • John Scott holds the copyright on the pointing and posting it on the list or copying it and sending it to someone would, without his permission, in violation of copyright law.

    Hylton Stewart wrote the music long before 1927, so it is public domain and may be shared.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    You can copyright the POINTING of a Public Domain Psalm text?

    Wow. Just, wow...
    Thanked by 2Ben noel jones, aago
  • jchthys
    Posts: 23
    Actually, I don't need the pointing; I will be using a different pointing for a different psalm. I do know how to sing Anglican Chant. (I also like the nonsense syllables ‘strawberry nought one two : strawberry nought one two three four’.)

    Edit: ‘strawberry’ triplet idea borrowed from Jack's Pipe.
  • jchthys
    Posts: 23
    Thanks very much for posting!
  • WJA
    Posts: 237
    frogman noel jones said:
    John Scott holds the copyright on the pointing and posting it on the list or copying it and sending it to someone would, without his permission, in violation of copyright law.


    Adam Wood said:
    You can copyright the POINTING of a Public Domain Psalm text?


    I find the topic of copyright law interesting. Please see here for my attempt at a primer on the subject.

    Whether copying Mr. Scott's work constitutes copyright infringement depends on whether he has copyright in it. Whether he has copyright in it does depends on whether he has created an original expression, not on whether he affixed a (c) to it or any other such thing.

    Ignore, for the moment, whether Mr. Scott has any copyright in the layout, for example, of this particular page. Instead, consider whether he has copyright in the pointing of a public domain psalm text.

    One has copyright in one's original expression embodied in a tangible medium. He can't have copyright in the psalm because it's public domain, i.e., it's not an original expression of his. So the only possible element of his work in which copyright could be claimed is the pointing itself, and the question would be whether the pointing is an original expression. If the pointing of the psalm is dictated by some principle or method of pointing psalms that is not itself an original expression of the author (say, for example, the formula for the Mode I psalm tone in the Liber Usualis), it is doubtful the pointing is an original expression and that copyright exists in it. If, on the other hand, he's come up with some nifty new scheme for singing psalm -- some psalm tone that's original to him -- then this pointing is probably original.

    So, for example, if I point "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want" according to the system for Mode I set forth in the Liber Usualis, I can stamp (c) all over it, but sayin' it don't make it so.

    Now, suppose I produce, say, a beautiful painting of a shepherd, a sheep, and a green pasture, and I write on this painting "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want" with pointing indicated according to the system for Mode I set forth in the Liber Usualis -- what copyright do I have in this work?

    I certainly have copyright in the work as a whole; you can't just photocopy the thing. But I do not have copyright in the particular element, "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want" with pointing indicated according to the system for Mode I set forth in the Liber Usualis. Why? Because it's not original.

    So, while you couldn't photocopy my painting, you could write down "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want" with pointing indicated according to the system for Mode I set forth in the Liber Usualis.

    I make no claim whatsoever about Mr. Scott's particular pointing of this psalm. It maybe that this pointing is entirely original to him. If it is, he probably has copyright in it. But if he does, it's because he created an original expression, not because he stamped (c) all over it.
    Thanked by 2jchthys CHGiffen
  • I like the NOUGHT! That works nicely, and I will use it, thanks.

    After numbers we go to:

    I can | sing this | chant || Oh, yes, | I can | sing this | chant.

    I can't take credit for this, but it may have come from Malcolm Archer.

    You take a great English choir, like Westminster Cathedral, give them OCP psalms and they'd be aghast....
  • jchthys
    Posts: 23
    As a music major who also happens to be a computer science major, I do try to integrate 0 as a natural number wherever I can :-) and I like the "I can sing" words.

    Although I haven't listened to this tune for a while, merely reading the sheet music has put it into my head as an earworm, so that I want to sing everything to it—including the psalm words that I originally heard with it. I think the tune aids memorization.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    As a (now retired) mathematician, permit me to say that 0 is not a natural number – the natural numbers are defined mathematically as N = { 1,2,3,... }. On the other hand, the whole numbers consist of the natural numbers together with 0, W = { 0,1,2,3,... }. The natural numbers are also referred to as the postitive integers. The natural numbers (positive integers), zero, and the negatives of the natural numbers (negative integers) make up the set of integers, Z = { ...,-3,-2,-1,0,1,2,3,... }.

    Removing my academic cap and returning control to earth...

    Chuck
  • So...what are the unnatural numbers?

    And, if 0 is a number, what number is it? Since it's zero....
  • jchthys
    Posts: 23
    0 is just the number 1 less than 1, or 1 greater than -1.

    As to the natural numbers: it depends on the definition. I prefer to include 0 (it just "makes sense" to me). Wikipedia says:

    "Several set-theoretical definitions of natural numbers were developed in the 19th century. With these definitions it was convenient to include 0 (corresponding to the empty set) as a natural number. Including 0 is now the common convention among set theorists, logicians, and computer scientists. Many other mathematicians also include 0, although some have kept the older tradition and take 1 to be the first natural number."

    There are no set of numbers called "unnatural", although the term could possibly be used to refer to all numbers that are not natural numbers, I suppose.

    Sorry to derail the thread.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • So...-1 is one less than nothing. What's nothing squared?
  • jchthys
    Posts: 23
    0² = 0 since 0 × 0 = 0.
  • Cool. Math even I can understand, thanks!
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    So...what are the unnatural numbers?

    Some of the numbers in Glory and Praise seemed kind of artificial. :-)
    Thanked by 1jchthys
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    The G&P numbers are twisted. I am sure it is a result of rampant in-breeding.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    I knew some cantors in my youth who conflated the (already inappropriate) term "Closing Hymn" with the fact that hymns in the hymnal are numbered, and so then announced (consistently) the Title and Location of "Our Closing Number."

    Considering what else was going on musically in the Mass, it was probably a pretty accurate description.
    Thanked by 1eft94530