I Shutter at the Idea
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    There's already a preccedent for attempting to (illicitly) add harmony to the EP, as we see in the Mass of Creation's full score. I just shuttered at the idea of a TTBB setting of the Eucharistic prayer for concelebration. Just so wrong. God forbid.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,460
    I'd be into it.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,460
    Also, I was hoping this thread would involve puns on mechanical organ shutters, which I think would be a swell idea.
  • Ben, you are quite correct with your concerns, whether focused upon the “license” of applying harmonic accompaniment, sung or played, to the Preface/EP/Collects etc., or the (to my knowledge) infrequently used Haugen (Four Freshmen) setting (there were others as well.)
    As one of the young lions of liturgy, however, I urge you not to allow yourself to twist your own knickers into knots over every detail of liturgical praxis. I know this may sound a bit like “heresy,” but we mustn’t let legalistic myopia occasionally prevent us from appreciating the forest while diagnosing the bark of a single tree.
    I’ve worked with celebrants in the past who chanted the preface note for note from the Sacramentary, but insisted that they needed accompaniment to stay in tune and in key. -That’s easily done with a “i-VII-v-IV/gm-F-dm-C” chordal scheme, for example. But the issue is, do you challenge the vicar with the GIRM opened to the prohibition page, not knowing whether on Monday morning the pastor will back you or wash his hands of you, or just discreetly undergird his chanted preface, no harm no foul. When those occasions were on my plate, I have to conclude the Lit. Police were on call busting a Clown or Puppet Mass elsewhere, and God didn’t mind because I didn’t get crisped by a lightning bolt.
    Lesson (not moral) of the story: choose carefully which hills you want to fight for and perhaps die upon.
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,205
    It's one thing to bend the rules as you suggest, Charles, as long as there is a trajectory for educating the presbyter in quo that will wean him of the background chords. It's another thing entirely to freely compose a published musical setting that directly, obstinately and willfully breaks express, particular liturgical law.

    It's the camel's nose under the tent.
  • No argument to be found here, my good collegue! Nor do I wish to impose my will against the observance of any law, I was merely illustrating a "rock and a hard place" scenario for Ben wherein the solution had no "casualties" and the odor of the camel's nostrils eventually gets transferred.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    Play the accompaniment on an 8' flute or stopped diapason with the swell box closed. That should be enough to help the celebrant along.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,177
    I thought it was kinda Funk-y (pun intended, not the mood though) when, years ago, a certain music mover in the (then) newfangled Mass music of yore sang everything (yes, everything) at a Mass for an otherwise forgettable workshop, accompanying himself on a guitar. I shuddered and wanted to shutter my ears.
  • CHG, are you familiar with Coen Brothers' films? One of them, INTOLERABLE CRUELTY, has a wedding scene that is the best send up of the scene you just described of the geetar sanger/John Denver celebrant!
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,460
    Clearly this is proof of the superiority of the EF, where this would be an impossibility for the celebrant, whose hands are otherwise engaged making a myriad of signs of the cross over the gifts.

    On the other hand, perhaps each individual celebrant in this photo could sing their own Mass independently, but in harmony with the rest:

    image
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    It still perplexes me why "those guys" even think to do what they do. I don't understand.
  • I would laugh hysterically. I've found that people who employ those sorts of ideas don't respond to constructive criticism anyway...so laughing at them at least makes them understand that people don't just disagree with them...they think they're ridiculous.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,964
    I agree with the ever mellow Charles from CA. There are things worth fighting for, and things that are not worth the trouble. This one isn't worth the trouble.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    When a priest approaches me, asking me to accompany something, I say:

    1) "I don't have music."

    2) If he gives me music, I bug my eyes out and say "I can't play THAT!" Then usually play a virtuosic postlude...

    This is one of the most strongly-worded rules regarding music, I seem to recall. I have no idea what the rationale is, but I try hard to follow it at all times.
    Thanked by 2Kathy tomjaw
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,460
    >> "I can't play THAT!"
    And as long as you don't specify that it is you conscience, and not your skill level, which prevents your playing, you have been as honest as is required.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,177
    Charles in CenCA ... I have! This particular Mass, celebrated in the evening at the close of the workshop, was more of a Virgil [sic] Mass for what, I suppose, was intended to be the new wave in the C [sic] of things to come. Anyway, it was not the sort of Funk that would have pleased very many who read this forum ... N(ot) P(leasant) M(usically) to me at all.

    This was neither a Great nor a Swell idea, a fact of which I am Positiv, and I'm just glad we are finally beginning to shed the heavy Bourdon of this sort of stuff that isn't worth a tracker's action anymore. A priest singing a folksy setting of the Eucharistic Prayer while accompanying himself on the guitar just isn't a good Mixture, for it strays far wide of the Principals and Foundations upon which the Mass is based. I apologize for any MeanTone Temperament that I might have displayed in getting this Wind off my Chest. I'll Stop now before someone with more Ranks in his/her Cornet hits a General Cancel on this Corno {sic] Paean.
    Thanked by 1Kathy
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,460
    CHG... ridorkulous.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,964
    This conversation needs to be swept away by an unda maris. The shutters need to be closed on it - shudder!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Chuck, I can clearly see then why you have a coupler of chiffs on your shoulders, so, as Popeye would say "bellows on!"
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,177
    Chuck in CenCA ... who would ever stoop Solo as to Bombarde you with crashing Zimbelstern his keep? But it did bring Tierce to these eyes to go the extra distance to get the 64ft Resultant.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,502
    Chuck H G, shoot me an email, so I can talk with your vox humana, thanks!
  • Love the photo Adam!
  • Awesome!!! What we need at the next Colloquium is some sort of Carol Burnett Show, with CHG writing the script. I am stunned by the great musical puns- kudos!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • I dunno, Mum, Wid-or someone else would have to GATHER a whole big Messie-an' lots of performers from all over. What if one of us had a Lang-lais-over Bach in Irving TX or Berlin, or worse, if we stranded an American in Paris? A pilot just can't Landini old place. Would we have to Partch together some sort of "Hello Dalli-" played on a piccolo in the interim? What if Chuck goes into Haydn somewhere? I know I couldn't just Lasso up talent, then Chopin up the routines Properly, I just couldn't hocket. Could you just walk up and Telemann "You're on in two, Guido, Handel it!"? "Oh, what a suite Delius youse givin' me, I's red all over breakin' out in'Ives I is!" And what if someone Souza's over intellectual property saying we violated copy Rites of Spring-time for... O Woz-z-'eck, who cares? I'm Giffen up this responsibility to you, MACW. I'm gonna Steal Away to Venice and then "rock" climb up Monte Verdi!

    Gotta go to church now.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
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