5 years later... How has SP been recieved in your diocese?
  • How has Summorum Pontificum been recieved in your diocese and in your parish(es)? Is the EF in your area
    Encouraged? Bearing fruit? Fostered? Supported?
    Met with indifference? Discouraged? Barely tolerated?

    Wherever you are on the ground- Has SP been treated as a freeing gift, or a dead letter, or other? Have interested laity been heard? Are more priests learning the older Mass to meet a need?

    Success stories? Hurdles?
  • We get a weekly Mass, and yet the previous bishop said no, on several occasions, to a parish. "I don't see how they [the FSSP] can concelebrate."

    I don't honestly know anything more than the official line.
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    In the very large archdiocese where I live, one local archdiocesan parish offers one EF Mass per week. This parish has one of the most talented and liturgically sensitive music directors in town; it also has excellent OF liturgies. It is possible that other parishes in the archdiocese offer the EF, but not in my metropolitan area.

    Interestingly, there is a small chapel staffed by the SSPX here, and there are still other small chapels of questionable allegiance to the Pope that offer private EF Masses.

    Generally speaking, SP is not on anyone's radar, save for the members at the parish described above.

    In the very large archdiocese where my wife works (yes, different from where we live), I think three total parishes offer the EF. We are very far away from that archdiocesan seat, and the EF is alien to the parishioners in this area of AD 2 as well.

    Both metro areas are top 20 U.S. cities in terms of population, and one of them is even a "Catholic city." I could say more about its history, but I'll spare you.
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    In Phoenix there is a parish (St. Catherine) with 3 EF daily-masses throughout the week, as well as every Sunday ... high mass about once every month or two. The priests celebrate ad orientem exclusively, even in OF, and the congregation (and school children!) are accustomed to it. (Mutual enrichment, anyone?)

    All of this is possible because of Summorum Pontificum, and what it has opened up to the local bishop (Olmsted) and pastor (Saenz).

    There is an FSSP parish which was able to acquire their own building within the last few years (previously they celebrated in the sanctuary of another, beautiful, OF parish).

    Some other priests in the diocese know the EF liturgy and celebrate it occasionally.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 966
    In my diocese it's hardly had any effect at all. For the most part it's been ignored/disregarded. Sure, we got FSSP at two churches (both shared, and we're not even sure that they'll remain in the diocese long), but only one priest to travel between them. I've heard various people saying that they feel that the diocese is dragging it down, too. I believe it.

    In my own locality, priests have not been open to the EF at all with the exception of one. We're "divisive", "not needed", or we're told that we have to procure an official diocesan position on the EF -- an official position that doesn't exist. One priest flatly said he didn't care about SP when told about it. One time when we did get an EF at a local church, the "Liturgy Coordinator" did his best to sabotage it.

    So not much change here. I need a new diocese.
  • Allan DAllan D
    Posts: 43
    Before SP, my diocese had one parish that offered the EF, on Sunday morning and on Thursday evening. In the first two or three years after SP, a handful of parishes experimented with offering the EF, usually just a single Mass for a special occasion. However, interest in the EF remained flat. Today, we are in the exact same situation as before SP. And next month, we will be losing the Thursday evening Mass (due largely to low attendance), so we actually will be worse off. Our bishop is tolerant of the EF for those who already attend it, but he does not want anyone "promoting" it. The diocesan seminarians I know are generally respectful of the EF but most have no interest in celebrating it. The one parish that has it is small and shrinking and shares a pastor with two other churches. It could be closed at the drop of a hat. The few other priests who are able to celebrate the EF are all assigned to multiple parishes (usually liberal ones) and have no justification (or time) to introduce the EF. There is no SSPX presence in this region. In brief, there is little or no hope for the future of the EF (or even the reform of the OF) in my diocese.
  • MACW, funny that we didn't ponder that amazingly obvious question last night.
    It pains me to simply answer "No."
    Amazing though how much lip service is afforded the Holy Father personally among clerics. They probably think "It's not as if my life depended upon what he says."
    What is bound in heaven....
  • Barely. There is currently no regularly scheduled TLM in my diocese (Springfield in Massachusetts). At one parish in a far corner of the diocese, there are occasionally one-off Low Masses. The pastor of that parish has "no intention to celebrate the Latin Mass regularly, don't worry." The FSSP is coming to celebrate a Solemn Mass at that parish. Perhaps this is the beginning of an FSSP apostolate in the diocese. We need one.

    Since our bishop, +McDonnell (bless him), who is rather liturgically liberal, is turning 75 this December, I pray that our new bishop will be better in this regard.
  • We're lucky to have a parish administrator who loves the EF and celebrates it, albeit imperfectly, on occasion (our late bishop limited Father to once per liturgical season), but, as Charles pointed out--we're at opposite ends of the same diocese--there's really no encouragement coming from the chancery, although we can only hope things might improve under the current ordinary.
  • Here in the AOD we have two parishes in Detroit proper which offer the EF on Sunday morning. In the suburbs we have one which offers a Saturday evening EF Mass, but I think there are several others as well. In farm country I know of two. However, there are more younger priests (ordained less than 5 years), who know and have celebrated this Mass. My parish is the only one which offers in addition to the Sunday morning EF Mass a Monday through Friday morning EF Mass, usually a High Mass. Archbishop Vignoran knows how to celebrate this Mass and has done so in Oakland, CA. but as far as I know not here in Detroit as yet. We also have several parishes who offer the OF in Latin so yes, I would say SP has had an effect in this Archdiocese. Interesting when you consider Detroit is where the first CTA conference happened some 40 years ago.
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    Not much in my old diocese (Richmond). No new latin masses added as far as I know. I don't think I ever expected SP to work magic in the short run. Plenty of "spirit of Vatican II" dead wood has to be cleared.
    Thanked by 1E_A_Fulhorst
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    In this archdiocese (Boston), there are three churches (including the Cathedral) with a Sunday EF Mass. One of those churches offers daily EF Masses also. Four others make it available with less frequent schedules (one Sunday a month, one weekday a month, etc.)
  • I know no details, but there is an EF parish being formed in the north of Houston. It has been given significant acreage and monetary support, and, of course, has the approval of our wonderful Cardinal. I am not at all a partisan of this development in the Church's liturgical life, but appreciate it as an historic rite which we should respect... along with some others, like Sarum, Gallican, Hereford, Cologne, and on and on. It would have to be something awfully good to get me away from Our Lady of Walsingham, Anglican Ordinariate, and the EF isn't it.
  • BachLover2BachLover2
    Posts: 330
    I am not at all a partisan of this development in the Church's liturgical life

    I looked over your resume and noted a heavy Lutheran and Anglican background. I am not surprised the Extraordinary Form is not to your liking.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    Does one have to be a partisan to appreciate this development? I think not. It is not – or should not be – a partisan issue at all.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,048
    AFAIK, nothing has changed in Youngstown. We have a FSSP parish (used to be SSPX before it got regularized about 20 years ago) and that seems to be enough. It's pretty hardcore; dress code is posted by the sanctuary door, and the annual rummage sale just got ended because somebody had donated "sinful clothes" and the head of the sale wouldn't remove them from sale. Most of the trashy liturgy and outright liturgical abuse that I've see has been in the DoY. There are a few signs of improvement, but I think it's from improvement in the church as a whole and not any effect from the local EF.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Hmmm. Lutheran. That explains a lot! LOL.

    The Diocese of Knoxville at one time was the smallest Catholic diocese in the country. We are still not large, and are still maybe 4-5% of the local population. However, we have a weekly Sunday EF mass in Knoxville, and there is one twice a month in a smaller city south of us. The masses are regulary advertised in the diocesan newspaper and the bishop has been supportive. However, the attendance is rather flat and I don't see any significant future growth. I think the people who want to attend the EF do, and the remainder choose to go to OF masses.
  • In AD Vancouver, the FSSP apostolate became a Parish with the AB giving them a church in Vancouver proper. A neighbouring parish has added an every Sunday EF that was started in 2007 and remains to this day. Another Parish began every Sunday EF two years ago.
    Other than that a number of Parishes have had the EF on occasions. At my own parish we have had a number of EF Masses and plan more.
    Our younger clergy have been far more interested with our latest ordained saying the EF for one of his first Masses (a trend for sure)

    One major change would be the involvement of the AB in the life of the FSSP Parish. Prior to 2008 the EF community would never see the AB, even for Confirmations. Since 2008 and his successor in 2009, the AB has visited the Parish with normal frequency (eg. Confirmations and special occasions) and shown his Pastoral support.

    Things only look up here for the EF
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Things are coming along in the diocese of Madison. Several parishes through out the diocese offer the EF on Sundays. And some also offer daily Mass as well. All of the paishes that do, other than the cathedral, are run by the Sciocety of Jesus Christ the Priest (some may remember when they made national news a few years ago for bringing back their parishes to the straight and narrow).

    The bishop is also very supportive. He'll be celebrating his public Mass on the 15th in the EF, and does it several times a year.
  • Gosh, here in Detroit attendance has been pretty good for EF Masses, indeed there is one parish I know of where the congregation asked the pastor if they could have an EF Mass. I think they get one every other week on a Saturday.

    At our parish we have lots of young families that attend the EF Mass, I would say about 40% of those who attend are families with young children. No dress code at our church other than Father's request in the summer for no shorts.
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    In our Diocese, the priest which sings the Mass for us (and is not a diocesan priest) has said that we have only one person who is our friend. It's very good that the friend happens to be the Bishop, and he has been very supportive, but he is the only one. He asked all his pastors to let us have the Mass at one of their parishes; no one did. The bad news, aside from that, is that the establishment here actively tries to rid itself of us; the good news is that the few newly ordained priests and seminarians that we have ARE interested in the EF, even though their expressed interest at this point would make things very difficult for them. So we're playing a waiting game, trying to survive and grow while giving our many children the opportunity to grow up with the EF as the "norm". By twos and threes new people come to our Sunday Missa Cantata and either stay permanently or come as often they can, telling their friends about it. In four years, we've already had three weddings (including one of our schola members) and six funerals (also including one of our schola). We are living our sacramental lives under the EF as far as we can, with the approval of the local Ordinary.

    It's also helpful, in a rather perverse way, that no one else is interested in doing this right now. We're not competing for resources with anyone, and the nearest schola is 60 miles away (Hi, Chris!). I've told our schola that I expect in 5 years that the Diocese will contact us and ask for our help. I might have been slightly crazy at the time I said it, but I've seen signs since then that I might be right.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I, too, think the Detroit diocese has been most receptive to the EF. There are quite a few parishes with weekly or monthly EFs. And it's not uncommon to have "special" EF Masses pop up in Detroit churches. At least for the city, there's also been a LOT of improvement in the liturgical life of the churches, but I question how much of that can be attributed to SP.
  • The desire for the Extraordinary Form is growing faster than the ability of traditional orders to meet the need,with the result that growth is restrained somewhat. I don't know if we get much help from the Chancery, but I can drive to Mass in any direction no more than 2 hours and attend Mass in at least 5 locations. The future looks better: the ordinary of a neighboring diocese has just become Metropolitan Archbishop of a major American city -- and he's friendly to the EF.

  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    I believe the only regularly scheduled EF Masses are held at in my Diocese at the same parish that had the indult before SP. That said, they now have daily Mass using the TLM at least 2 or 3 days a week.

    I know that the two priests newly ordained two years ago both offered their Masses of Thanksgiving using the EF. Some day they will be pastors.
  • On vacation in New Orleans this June I attended a beautiful EF Mass at St. Patricks. It was the first Mass of a newly ordained priest. Absolutely gorgeous and the church was full.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    We have a lot of EFs at different parishes in our diocese and in the neighboring archdiocese, including some on Sundays, and regularly on Thursday and Friday evenings. It is definitely possible to attend Mass in the Extraordinary Form where I live.
  • hilluminar
    Posts: 120
    Here in Portland, Oregon (home of OCP), nothing has changed at all. We have 2 thriving SSPX parishes, probably due to the negative way the Archdiocese looks at EF Masses. To counteract the popularity of the SSPX, Bishop Lukewarm (that is what Vlasny means in Czech, and he is Czech) allows one tiny country parish, way out in the boonies to have the EF Mass every Sunday. These are pretty poor accommodations on the part of the Archdiocese. If the Bishop would place the EF Mass right alongside the OF Mass, like maybe at the Cathedral, the SSPX would have the wind knocked right out of their sails. Meanwhile, the little country parish just limps along...
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Do you mean St Birgitta's (which is nominally in the city of Portland)?
  • Our diocese has:
    -- 1 Sunday principal Mass in the EF in indult parish pre-SP under the now-retired bishop; our pastor was made the Bishop's Delegate for the EF by the present bishop (my home parish);

    --1 Sunday evening EF;

    --2 one-Sunday-per month, afternoon or evening EFs (cathedral, about 100 attendees; and shrine, about 30);

    --and two weekday EFs (Tuesday am, always Low Mass, and Wednesday pm, once in a while Missa Cantata).

    These Masses are offered by four priests total (two travel to offer the once/month EFs). The Wednesday night EF is offered by a one-year-ordained priest whose pastor is preparing to offer the EF as well; whether or not that will become a regular Sunday offering remains to be seen, as the parish is building a much-larger church to accommodate its size, which may free up time in the weekend Mass schedule.

    Probably about half of our seminarians are interested in offering the EF. The priest ordained this past June offered a Solemn Mass of Thanksgiving as his first Mass, but it was insisted/published that his official first Mass was the OF he offered on Sunday.

    Other than the present parishes, the EF is just not on the radar. When I am out and about assisting with Masses at diocesan events, most people have never heard of the EF. (I find out about this because I always veil, which seems a nine-day's wonder, particularly when I'm conducting, and people always ask, so it's a natural opening to talk about the EF.) The bishop has offered Confirmation in the EF twice, this year and three years ago, and is friendly to it; but the EF is not actively promoted by the Office of Divine Worship. (To be fair, the Director of the ODW has his hands full with the OF, and he is a good man.)

    In support of the EF, there are four musicians involved, of which I am one (I direct the schola that assists at the cathedral EF and in my own parish's EF on most holy days, and I volunteer in that capacity; I am also a volunteer when I plan and carry out the music for diocesan Masses every so often). Many of the parishes have only volunteer musicians and a different set of them for each mass, with no coordination or oversight. Most pastors appear afraid of their musicians and see no reason for anything to change.
    Thanked by 1Ruth Lapeyre