Vespers at a new parish
  • AngelaRAngelaR
    Posts: 319
    Greetings, everyone, from Springfield IL! I've really fallen off the forum this past year, and am hoping to be more involved this coming year. Suffice to say, my first year at my new parish has been one hell of a year. I have stories that would make the most hardened veterans here cringe. I also am happy to say that I finished this year with a brand new 22 voice children's choir (mostly fourth graders) which has learned several chants, that the parish on the whole has been welcoming to me, and I am now heading up a new once-a-month meet and greet called "Chant 'n Chow" which will be a medley of food, fellowship, a short chant class, and a chant/polyphony sing-a-long. I also had a wildly successful Christmas program at the school, and the parents at the school really like me. I pray that I will find the time to get more involved in my beloved chant this coming year!

    But now for the matter at hand. Very few families which attend the attached parochial school actually attend Mass at the parish. My pastor (a musician himself, and a celebrant of the EF when possible) is starting a new initiative, "Catholic Education begins with Sunday Mass", and is planning a Sunday night Vespers at the end of the month which he is expecting all school families to attend. He will be delivering a homily during this Vespers about the necessity of families getting involved in the parish again. I am getting together an adult choir, which has been on hiatus the last few years, and which is unfamiliar with chant. I have three rehearsals scheduled with this adult group. I will also involve my children's choir, but I will have only one or two rehearsals to teach the kids new music before we sing. The parish has strong roots both in traditional and contemporary hymnody, and likes to sing (although I can't speak for all the families who have not been in attendance these last few years, and these will be the people in attendance that night). I am the music teacher at the adjoining school, but the Vespers will be at the end of our first week of school, so I don't know if I'll have time to go through any of the music with the kids in class that week. Oh, and the acoustic in the church is perfect for chant!

    The hymn will be O God Beyond All Praising (the children's choir sings it soooo well), the psalms will be sung rectitonally, the children will sing the Arcadelt Ave Maria as a meditation after the homily, the Magnificat will be Holy Is His Name by Talbot (the parish knows it), and I have asked the organist to do a huge improvisation on Salve Regina for the recessional.

    Here are my questions:
    1) Is it too ambitious to sing antiphonally, with adults and children alternating in the loft? Would the parish know what the heck we are doing if we try to sing antiphonally? Kids will be sitting with their families downstairs, so we won't have the true antiphonal seating downstairs.

    2) Can antiphons be sung rectitonally as well, or are there settings that I can/should teach to my adult choir?

    3) I plan to use the selections from the Mundelein Psalter without the use of their melodies. But should I use a different translation, and what are the copyright laws governing all this?

    4) If we sing from the loft, will the congregation sing along? If we sing from the back down below, how will the organist follow my cues (and there probably won't be space for me to do any proper directing down below)?

    I think that does it. Any thoughts here would be extremely helpful. We start rehearsing next Thursday. Thanks! Angela
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,699
    1) is it possible for the children to sit together instead of with their parents?

    4) I think if things are simple enough the congregation should catch on by the second Psalm. You could also train two choir members to do these and then strategically place them within each side of the congregation, somewhere right in the middle of where the other folks will sit. I've done this before and it works quite nicely.

    Regarding the antiphons - if you have any interest in doing choral antiphons with the verses sung by the congregation, I have been working on choral antiphons (most SAB and some SATB) for Vespers. The SAB ones are very easy as they are for volunteer choirs, the SATB ones are a bit more complex as they're part of a commission for a professional choir. Feel free to send me a message here on the forum if I can be of assistance with this.
  • AngelaRAngelaR
    Posts: 319
    1) Downstairs, the kids will have to sit with their parents. It will be too chaotic for parents to find their kids afterwards otherwise.

    4) I like this idea.

    As far as the antiphons are concerned, bless your heart! A lot will depend on who I can get to commit for sure, and I'll know more by the weekend. My bass has a gorgeous voice, but can't read music at all, and so it takes him time to learn. A simple SAB antiphon could be just the ticket, though. :-)
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    You might try and plant the choir all throughout the congregation. I've seen it done very effectively before. If you want the people to know they're there, you could have them sit on the end of every pew (or second pew, depending on numbers), or you can go more covert, and have them sit randomly.
    Thanked by 1AngelaR
  • If we sing from the back down below, how will the organist follow my cues (and there probably won't be space for me to do any proper directing down below)?


    Where is the organ relative to the major bits of the church?
  • AngelaRAngelaR
    Posts: 319
    The church choir loft is in the back, and the organ is placed to the lefthand side, facing sideways. I'll have to look again to see how far back a director can be in the main body of the church, and yet still be visible to the organist. However, I don't know how much choral music we will be capable of if I scatter the entire choir among the congregation...unless I ask the choir to reconvene upstairs during the homily, and stay there for the remainder. Hmmmmm.
  • AngelaRAngelaR
    Posts: 319
    Still looking for advice about the texts and translations of the psalms, and any copyright issues. Any help here?

    Matthew, it looks like I'll need to keep the antiphons unison due to the choir members being spread out among the families. Thanks for your generous offer, though, and I'll keep it in mind for the future!
  • 3) I plan to use the selections from the Mundelein Psalter without the use of their melodies. But should I use a different translation, and what are the copyright laws governing all this?

    If you are going to copy or print anything from the Mundelein Psalter, even just the notes, you may find yourself in hot holywater.

    May we photocopy these texts?
    Photocopying of the Mundelein Psalter is prohibited. The material in this edition is copyrighted by several groups and individuals who have not authorized the free reproduction of their work.

    In addition, the distribution of photocopied texts and handouts defeat the value of using resources for public prayer that are worthy of the liturgy. A dignified edition which is not simply discarded after the service, on the other hand, shows respect for the Word of God and offers to the faithful a resource which is noble, beautiful and significant.


    I love the last sentence which makes them look all holy and everything after saying in the first paragraph that the books includes things by groups and individuals whose interest in worship is tied straight to the, and this makes it ok, the almighty dollar.

    Forget them, use the revised Grail Psalter texts, they are very liberal about granting permission for use I have discovered. But check that in case it's changed.

    Great to have you posting again.
  • AngelaRAngelaR
    Posts: 319
    Thanks, Noel! It is good to be back. That is the feedback I was looking for. I knew I'd have copyright issues with the Mundelein texts and melodies. I'll check into the Grail texts. I have a meeting with Father tomorrow to finalize the music, and maybe he'll have more info to provide.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Weren't you at the cathedral at one point Angela?
  • AngelaRAngelaR
    Posts: 319
    Yup, I was at the Peoria IL Cathedral for 4 years and developed a chant school there. I moved to Springfield last year and took a job at a parish on the north end. I have a new appreciation to the struggles of the average parish MD!
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    If you can get your hands on it, there was a book published in the late 1970's called "Music for evening prayer: for sundays, holy days and feasts of the Lord" ISBN 00059959300

    It is in modern notation, but has all the antiphons set to music as well as appropriate psalm tones. It only has the materials for the office of Vespers, but also includes the office of Compline after Evening Prayer I and after Evening Prayer II.

    You will have to write your own accompaniments.
    Thanked by 1AngelaR