" How do you know if it's the fault of the volume of the organ, and not the hymn choices or the apathy of the congregation that they are not singing? "

Yes.

The received wisdom is that the organ needs to be loud enough so that people don't feel self-conscious about their singing. That being said, I think registration plays a role too with a good foundation of Principals and (my least favorite stop) Quintadenas kept to a minimum.

My response to one fellow who said it was too loud was, "Did I ruin your nap?" Another who said it was too soft, is someone I know needs a hearing aid. It's a no-win so use your own judgement.

I don't have a tracker, so I am far enough away from the pipes to hear pretty much what the congregation hears. Sometimes there is, it is true, harshness in those electronics. Many of them seem to sound a bit bad in the lower parts of the keyboards, and I don't know why. Could be speaker placement, speaker quality, overdriving the speakers, or who know what else. They steadily improve, but are still not quite pipe organs in terms of the sound they produce.

The organ can NEVER be too loud!!!!!!! :D:D:D:D


Seriously though, my rule is that I should be able to hear the congregation clearly behind it, even from a loft. I also modify by numbers.

A very important rule I've come across, too: SMALL CONGREGATIONS SING IN A DIFFERENT STYLE FROM BIG ONES. For smaller congregations, I play on 8, maybe 8 and 4, manuals alone, and very quickly.

And generally it's better to be too loud. Loud makes people confident to join in. Soft makes people nervous that someone might hear them. I often have trouble singing if the organ is soft, as I'm actually rather self-conscious about my voice.

I was taught by my mentors that the organist has to come up underneath the congregation and lift them. In this way, they hear each other and themselves, with the organ "carrying" them along. Once you have gotten the "sweet spot" figured out, they with increase or decrease with you. When they feel confident and supported, it is exciting when the organ begins to swell underneath them and they naturally want to sing out. When I say "underneath" it doesn't mean "soft." You have to be strong enough to carry but not overpower them.

I am absolutely convinced that familiarity with particular songs is far more significant than personal taste when you are talking about why people sing. There is a Mass at my church that was in the "contemporary" style for 30 years, and now all the music is from the Vatican II Hymnal. I was told by many people who regularly attend this Mass that they hated traditional hymnody. But you would not know it when we sing OLD HUNDREDTH, HYFRYDOL, or another extremely well known hymn tune.

But you have to find that sweet spot where you are carrying along most of the people who are singing...at least that's the way I think of it. It requires a lot of listening and adjusting, possibly over a long period of time if your congregation is particularly dull or if the space is unforgiving (resonant churches where the sound all swirls together are much better). Maybe I overthink it, but that works for me. There's no cookie-cutter solution, unfortunately.

I do not recommend snide remarks to parishioners; job security may tempt you to do this. You are trying to make music with them, like it or not. The Gerre Hancock story is awesome. Turning hostiles into allies works better for everyone.

You might think of a timid congregation as the weaker chorister who needs to stand between two strong singers in order to find his voice.

Hope that helps a bit.
Jon

In a perfect world (which we don't inhabit), I'd say for a congregation that size, in that seating arrangement, it may be better to stick to a capella singing. Of course, I'm sure that'd never fly, but I think it WOULD be musically best. Another idea that would never fly would be simply reducing the use of hymns drastically, maybe one per Mass. It just may not be practical to expect the congregation to sing with that few people.

Or perhaps the priest might consider making a request of the congregation to limit their seating choices to, say, the first 15 rows of pews.

Again, it may just be the reality that congregational singing may not work at this parish.

I always use mixtures and reeds under expression and I shade the box according to how many people are in the congregation and their volume while singing. I'm also careful to use A LOT of variation in registrations. This helps to prevent listener fatigue.

At pretty much every place I've played at I've had comments from both sides. "It's too loud!" "Can't you play louder? We can hardly hear it." I figure when I get blasted by both sides then I'm at about the right volume.

I always ask the complainer to name specifically which hymn or other piece of music during the Mass they thought the organ was too loud/soft. If they can do this, I take a serious look at the registration I used for that piece. If not, I thank them for their feedback and forget about it.

**Sigh** Is anybody ever really pleased with the music no matter what we adjust? The fact remains we, as musicians, need to make decisions based on professional judgements and experience. The bottom line is that we will never pleased everybody all the time. We do the best we can with the gifts we've been given. In the last 18 months since I've been DM, I get compliments, complaints, more compliments, more complaints, etc. Before every mass I pray that the Lord leads me in the right direction, and that's all I can ask for. God bless to all.

Have any others taken note of the effects of external factors on how the people sing? For instance, I used to be aware that, usually, if the weather was cool or cold, they sang better than when it was hot. Rain also was a positive factor for better singing. On the other hand, very little could induce robust singing on, say, Low Sunday. Often the 'loudness' (or 'softness') of the organ neither encourages nor discourages a congregation who simply aren't going to sing, or, on the other hand, simply ARE going to sing. What is pure delight is when a congregation have learned to vary the volume of sound in concord with the organ. When you have got them to contest the sound of the plenum as well as match the sound of a mere 8' gedeckt, you (and they) have 'arrived'.
It should be borne in mind, though, that the well-played organ is never too loud nor too soft: it is simply appropriate to text, music, and theme of the day. Those who complain of it being too one way or another are, then, not themselves participating appropriately. If they are mumble singing on LAUDA ANIMA, it is they who are too soft, not the organ that is too loud.

As for volume in general, here's a BIG tip:

Look at the complainer's ear.

Do you see a hearing aid? If so, there's the culprit. I suspect that the organ (due to all the overtones) sounds AWFUL through a hearing aid. Unless you want to omit everything but the 8' Hohlflote, just ignore them, or suggest they sit farther away from the instrument or turn off their hearing aids during musical portions. There's not really much that can be done about that.

There are some people whose idea of church music is that it be all meek and mild.

They don't understand music very well.

THE STONING OF THE ORGANIST: ACTS 29

1And it came to pass, when Paul was at Corinth, he and certain disciples came upon a mob that was stoning an organist. 2And Paul said unto them, "What then hath he done unto thee that his head should be bruised?" 3And the people cried with one voice, "He hath played too loud. 4Yea, in the singing of psalms, he maketh our heads to ring as if they were beaten with hammers. 5Behold, he sitteth up high in the loft, and mighty are the pipes and mighty is the noise thereof, and though there be few of us below, he nonetheless playeth with all the stops, the Assyrian trumpet stop and the stop of the ram's horn and the stop that soundeth like the sawing of stone, and we cannot hear the words that cometh out of our own mouths. 6He always tosseth in the variations that confuse us mightily and playeth loud and discordant and always in a militant tempo, so that we have not time to breathe as we sing. 7Lo, he is a plague upon the faith and should be chastised." 8Paul, hearing this, had himself picked up a small stone, and was about to cast it, but he set it down and bade the organist come forward. 9He was a narrow man, pale of complexion, dry, flaking thin of hair. 10And Paul said unto him, "Why hath thou so abused thy brethren?" 11And the organist replied, "I could not hear them singing from where I sat, and therefore played the louder so as to encourage them." 12And Paul turned round to the mob and said loudly, "Let him who has never played an organ cast the first stone." 13And they cast stones for awhile until their arms were tired and Paul bade the organist repent and he did. 14And Paul said unto him, "Thou shalt take up the flute and play it for thirty days, to cleanse thy spirit." 15And afterward, they returned to Corinth and sang psalms unaccompanied and then had coffee and were refreshed in the faith.

[source, apparently Prairie Home Companion]

Too funny.

Francis, so true! I'd respond like this:

"oh, ok, we can turn off the organ and do unaccompanied chant next Sunday. Thanks for the idea!"

hahahahaha that was good francis,,,, can I join you with the tambourine? ahahaha