On choosing recessional hymns
  • E_A_FulhorstE_A_Fulhorst
    Posts: 381
    Assume a recessional hymn must be used.

    1. How do you choose?
    2. For that matter, how do you discern what's not too distracting for those who wish to remain and pray?
  • In our parish, most of the priests leave during the first verse of the recessional hymn. When they are out of sight, people start to leave. So, I follow these guidelines
    1. It should be a hymn that people know "by heart". Many will not even have a book open.
    2. It should have a hymn text that can stand on its own with just one verse. Singing one verse of a hymn about the Trinity would not work. As would other, similar, texts that "tell a story" over many verses.

    My favorites are:
    NOW THANK WE ALL OUR GOD
    FOR THE BEAUTY OF THE EARTH
    FOR THE FRUIT OF ALL CREATION, THANKS BE TO GOD
    GIVE THANKS TO GOD FOR HE IS GOOD
    LIFT HIGH THE CROSS

    Many, many years ago, I was privileged to have a pastor who treasured the integrity of the hymn texts. He believed in singing all the verses always. Frequently, he reminded people in the pews that "the Mass has not ended until the final verse of the final hymn is sung." He would stay in the sanctuary until the last verse of the recessional hymn was sung.

    One time, the Cardinal came to celebrate Mass; it was a Sunday that was on November 1st, All Saints. The final hymn was SINE NOMINE. The Cardinal, and entourage, departed during verse one. Outside the church, the Cardinal was waiting for the people to leave. No one left their pew. His Eminence wondered where everyone was. Of course, they all stayed in the church for the singing of all 8 verses. They were well trained. That's when the pastor, gently, reminded the Cardinal that "the Mass has not ended until...."
    Thanked by 1ContraBombarde
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Frequently, he reminded people in the pews that "the Mass has not ended until the final verse of the final hymn is sung."



    "The mass has ended, go in peace ... after the final verse of our closing hymn."
  • We cannot stop people from leaving... ite, Missa est means ite, Missa est after all. So keep it short and sweet. Have one verse of a hymn that everyone knows by heart, OR try repeating the first verse of another hymn you've done in the liturgy. We are experimenting with that right now at my parish and folks are slowly starting to pick up on it.

  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 783
    I've actually found that when I do a hymn that has the last couple lines which everyone has memorized (think: Immaculate Mary, "Ave, Ave, Ave Mariiiiiiiia...") that they are *more* likely to put their hymnals down and start walking out the door during those lines.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Although, yes, the mass IS ended at Ite Missa Est ... There is a thing called "politeness," or "manners." Should you really get up and walk out while a hymn is being sung? It's just bad form.

    Sure, you don't HAVE to stay ... neither do you HAVE to, under penalty of sin, chew with your mouth closed or excuse your self should you accidentally burp in public.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,116
    I have no compunction about leaving during a detestable recessional hymn. It's rare, but I did it last evening. I didn't have a choice about the opening hymn (America the Beautiful, which was detestable in its placement; had it been a recessional, I'd have stayed through it), but Let There Be Pizza On Earth needs to be euthanized. About half of the congregation appeared to sympathize with my perspective. (Give me almost any St Louis Jesuit Song except something like Anthem, and I'd prefer it, tough as it is to say.) Then again, this was all after a very elderly priest (pre-Boomer) offered a non-homily by stringing together quotes from Thomas Jefferson, de Tocqueville, sentimental patriotic poetry, and then hijacked the Prayers of The Faithful, and sprinkled random ersatz sacral vernacular through the Mass. Oh, and he was frequently unintelligible because of the sound system and the mike being placed too close to his mouth. (This was not my normal parish, but one closer to where I live.)
  • PGA,
    Etiquette at this moment really isn't part of the equation. To the contrary, if the zeal shown by exiting congregants was a manifestation of their taking their missio seriously rather than getting to the car, we'd soon see the end of days! Furthermore, as I understand it, it is only manners and custom that the faithful remain in the nave until after the celebrant has crossed the plane, so to speak. Technically, you can bolt for the door after singing (ha!) Deo gratias est. I advocate none of the above actions, just saying.
    As far as choice of repertoire vis a vis post Mass private prayer, we've had both rousing hymn and gentle chant as examples this week at colloquium. At my parish we sing a closing hymn generally complete as it takes a very long time to empty the church, so an individual that wants "SERENITY NOW!" has to wait in any case. And let's not forget, the organ provides a liturgical and theological "singing" quite appropriate to this moment that is, no matter grand or subtle, an inducement to prayer, devotion and reflection.
  • Cantate
    Posts: 33
    I remember for a period of time in a parish I previously worked in, I noticed at least 2/3 of those in the pews (often more) of people were gone after the first verse of the final hymn, sometimes even before (I could look down and see people leaving the second the organ started). Since the vast majority of the congregation clearly was not interested in singing the final hymn, I eliminated it, opting for an organ postlude to start immediately. People complained with a fury...I was shocked. I came to the conclusion that, to these people, heaven will be hell....because there will be nothing to complain about...
  • All of this reflects a lack of respect for music, musicians and prayer through music, that's all.


    This does not:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaY1zBoJOsY

  • E_A_FulhorstE_A_Fulhorst
    Posts: 381
    ... the organ provides a liturgical and theological "singing" quite appropriate to this moment that is, no matter grand or subtle, an inducement to prayer, devotion and reflection.

    This makes sense. Assume now, though, that we're in one of those impoverished --- financial or spiritual or otherwise --- parishes that does not use the organ, because the original question is regarding the hymn itself.

    Text and melody both should do perform this same function. It should be an inducement to prayer, devotion, and reflection. So, the question becomes:

    What qualities should be sought after within the text or melody of a hymn which would indicate it's an inducement to prayer, devotion, and reflection? Part of the problem with problem hymns is not as often any heresy but the bubblegum sugar-pop tone.
  • Then choose any appropriate (to your discretion) psalm in a chanted (through or psalm tone or recto tono) manner. End of story.
  • At Saint Edward we sing the seasonal Marian antiphon (simplex) right after the dismissal, followed by an organ postlude. We started doing this at all the English masses three years ago. Now, with the Vatican II Hymnal, we just cite the page number of the hymn in the worship leaflet. Most people stay and sing.
  • Maureen
    Posts: 679
    I realize that music directors, etc. have to pay something of attention to the congregation is doing. But this is getting kind of micromanage-ish. Long before Vatican II, there were always people who slipped out early or as soon as Father finished saying his piece. I've read at least one book from Victorian times complaining about it. (The same woman's book complained about people staying too long, too. She also complained about people paying attention to missals and not owning missals to pay attention to. It got to sound like one of those complainers at church, but apparently she was a legitimate literary figure. Sheesh.)

    Either people have a legitimate reason to leave like a flash, or they don't. If they don't, that's between them and God, or them and Father. Why not let them worry about their own conduct? If you're reasonably sure they're not fleeing the music because of its stinkitude, how is their leaving your problem?

    (Yeah, sometimes we have to practice "custody of the brain" when it comes to this stuff. Just to stay sane.)
  • I take my cues from the people in the pews. If we are singing something they like they will continue singing long after the priest has gone down the aisle. On the other hand, if it is something they don't like, or don't know, they sometimes beat the priest out the door!! I've given up on postludes. No need for any of it, since most people are gone anyway (my church is very small-fits 300, and never full).
  • There's an old saying, that has been found in a few parishes, "And Judas left early too"

    Thanked by 1Wendi
  • E_A_FulhorstE_A_Fulhorst
    Posts: 381
    Oy --- the music director should not play to the congregation but to play to what the congregation should be doing.

    (Giving a thanksgiving after receiving communion is not required, but it should be encouraged. Saints who speak on post-communion are pretty clear on it. If anyone can ever contribute to this inducement, he should. Music, can and should fulfill this function throughout Mass, should therefore also do so afterward. QED.)

    Once more: Assuming we choose a hymn, how do we provide an inducement to prayer, devotion and reflection?

    This was asked in good faith, but it's becoming increasingly clear that if a hymn can ever be justified, it is justified either:

    1. With great difficulty, for reasons which do not easily come to mind; or
    2. In situations where it is pastorally imprudent to induce prayer, devotion and reflection. Again, and even less: Examples do not come to mind.
  • E_A_FulhorstE_A_Fulhorst
    Posts: 381
    (This is also a question regarding principles in hymn selection. Mentioning one hymn or another --- my Mass also does Marian hymns --- doesn't help so much.)
  • jpal
    Posts: 365
    We also sing the seasonal Marian antiphon. The priest stays at the foot of the altar until it is finished, and then exits during the postlude. Very few leave during the singing compared to when we sang hymns, probably because they know it won't be long. A couple leave as soon as the singing is done, but most wait the extra 20 seconds until the priest is out of sight. I don't see a legitimate reason to fuss about people leaving right after the dismissal, when there are real issues to deal with. Singing after the dismissal is a devotional practice -- not an essential part of the liturgy.
  • rich_enough
    Posts: 1,050
    Given that something must be sung, a seasonal Marian antiphon is the best option. Doing the same five or six vernacular hymns over and over just reenforces the idea that we have "nothing better to do" at this point, that we're just killing time, especially if only one or two verses are sung.

    With a self-contained piece like the Salve or Regina Caeli you don't have to worry about "doing all the verses," people will eventually memorize it, and the music is anything but perfunctory.
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Is there a resource that lists the various antiphons and their appropriate seasons?
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Thanks!
  • Greetings! At my parish, Holy Rosary, Bronx, NY, altar servers, choir and priests gradually assemble during the 3 verses of the final hymn. They recess during the postlude, which comes immediately after the 3rd and final verse. If an organ postlude is in a different key than the final hymn then an improvisation, with modulation, is needed before playing the actual postlude. Blessings!
    Thanked by 1SamuelDorlaque
  • Now, THAT is good ettiquete and manners! Congratulations, Heitor.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    I'm not for recessional hymns. I prefer to play an organ postlude, even if only a short prelude, voluntary or a fugue of some sort.

    I only make use of hymns for recessionals during Lent and Advent when organ postludes are not permitted.

    Another option is to use a Marian Antiphon appropriate to the liturgical season such as the Salve Regina.