Reining in the sign of peace
  • E_A_FulhorstE_A_Fulhorst
    Posts: 381
    Even if the worst of it has been reined in over the years, as regards the handshaking there are two questions:

    1. How does this fit?
    2. How would it fit better?
  • Doesn't.

    Catholics don't like sharing germs. Some Catholics are there for Mass, not for social interaction.
  • Frogman--I wish I were in your parish instead of mine where social interaction seems to take precedence over everything. For many parishioners, mass is the excuse for having dinner afterwards or having a party. I'm not kidding. I've started the Agnus Dei immediately following the sign of peace because it would go on forever, sometimes even before the priest is ready at the altar just to make sure people know to stop. In many cases, I've gotten through the entire Agnus Dei with people still shaking hands, hugging, kissing, etc. At funerals, the former pastor would walk down the aisle and shake EVERYBODY's hand that was in the church.
    Thanked by 1marajoy
  • E_A_FulhorstE_A_Fulhorst
    Posts: 381
    Perhaps rephrase: We're stuck with the sign of peace. How do we make it fit until it gets removed?
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    How to make it fit? Omit the congregational sign of peace. The only required part is "V/ The peace of the Lord be with you always. R/ And with your spirit." That is the rite of peace. After that, the priest may go directly to the agnus dei.

    Other than skipping it, the best thing I can tell you is to work on the overall atmosphere of reverence. Make the church building and the Mass feel so holy and reverent that anything more than a simple handshake would feel like a violation of that very sacred space. Bring back that Eucharistic amazement and awe.

    Long term solution? Yes. Should it work? I'm sure of it.
    Thanked by 2ryand Chris Allen
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,787
    There is a school of thought that the fraction anthem should not begin until something is waiting to be broken, and Musicteacher has sent me running to the GIRM. It's not explicit on the subject of vamping beforehand, but I read "accompanies" more narrowly myself:

    "This invocation accompanies the fraction of the bread and, for this reason, may be repeated as many times as necessary until the rite has been completed."

    We've had discussions of how the (occasional, at St. David's) 'procession' to shake hands with the back pews might be accompanied and shied away from singing "Da pacem"; sometimes there is a bit of organ filling in, but I don't miss that either. At protestant churches the peace is more often in the "eastern position" at the offertory, which makes it easy to insert a hymn verse to scare everyone back into their places.



  • E_A_FulhorstE_A_Fulhorst
    Posts: 381
    Ben Yanke: Reference?
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    The Sign of Peace is around Agnus Dei since a very long time; the Tridentine missal explicitly demands to give the Kiss of Peace after the Agnus Dei in Solemn Masses (provided they are not Requiems or Holy Thursday). In this rite however the celebrant gives a hug (osculum pacis, Kiss of Peace) saying Pax tecum to the Deacon or Master of Ceremonies who in turn gives it to the Subdeacon who gives it to the choir, whilst the celebrant proceeds further with the Mass to receive Communion.
    So there is no handshaking with each other, as the peace spreads from the altar; in my opinion we would do good to resume this rite and extend it to the people.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I'm not sure there's anything we can do as musicians, so it probably isn't worth our worry.
    Thanked by 1ryand
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    E_A_Fulhorst,

    It's not found in the GIRM, but in the actual order of Mass. It looks something like this:

    The priest says:
    The peace of the Lord be with you always.

    And the people respond:
    And with your spirit.

    Then the deacon (or priest) may add, when appropriate:
    Let us offer each other the sign of peace.
    Thanked by 1marajoy
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,017
    And, even if the invitation is omitted, there's nothing to stop people in the pews from exchanging a sign of peace unbidden. They just will anyway.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,175
    Then the deacon (or priest) may add, when appropriate:
    Let us offer each other the sign of peace.

    But ... he does not have to!
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Actually, contrary to what I said above, it's also in the GIRM, no 154.
  • Chrism
    Posts: 869
    I think chanting the "Offerte vobis pacem" would be a good start. Generally the Sign ought to be given by each congregant to the (one or two) people immediately next to him. In the United States, the norm is a sober handshake and the exchange of the words, "Peace be with you." I assume that the pastor can encourage the use of the Latin "Pax tecum". In any event, the rite can be accomplished in eight seconds. And then the Agnus Dei can begin.
  • Amen, Chrism. Thank you.
  • E_A_FulhorstE_A_Fulhorst
    Posts: 381
    I'm not sure there's anything we can do as musicians, so it probably isn't worth our worry.

    Musicians tend to pay attention to the liturgy. So musicians would know. (Some musicians may even talk to their pastors, who can do something about it.)

    In any event, the rite can be accomplished in eight seconds. And then the Agnus Dei can begin.

    It takes less than eight seconds to disrupt worship. (Disagree? In the spirit of experimentation, bring an air horn to Sunday's 10.30 Mass and see what happens.)
  • E_A_FulhorstE_A_Fulhorst
    Posts: 381
    Anyway, thanks for all the responses, guys. Some context, in light of other comments along these lines:

    I'm having a hard time personally interpreting the Sign of Peace as making any sense at all in the overall structure of the liturgy. How does it make sense to me, as a worshiper? What place does it have just before the Agnus Dei? Given an authentic understanding of the Mass as a prayer and the Sacrifice, what is its justification?

    More to the point, once we understand the broader category of the Sign of Peace in its proper context, what form should the sign of peace take here in America? Should it be handshaking? Should it be something else?

    Given that the GIRM delegates the implementation of the sign of peace to the interpretive power of the bishops' council (GIRM 54) --- and presumably, ultimately, the bishop --- properly interpreting when the sign of peace is appropriate will not take Vatican III.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    E_A_Fulhorst, I really understand where you're coming from with this last comment. To see what the ideal really is, you have to look at the kiss of peace at an EF solemn Mass, and it makes much more sense. It is expressed very reverently and deliberately, and it is only used at solemn Masses, not at every Mass.

    For an example, load this video below and watch as the priest offers the sign of peace to the deacon, and the deacon in turn passes it to the sub-deacon. That is the true spirit of the sign of peace.

    Sign of Peace at an EF Solemn Mass (Go to 7:43 if it doesn't automatically)
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    "I'm having a hard time personally interpreting the Sign of Peace as making any sense at all in the overall structure of the liturgy."

    Really? Wow.

    This is symptomatic of a common trad error. They often emphasize the vertical over the horizontal (rightly so!) but then ignore the horizontal aspect of the liturgy altogether.

    You are communing WITH people. It is not right to commune with a man whom you hold in contempt. The Kiss of Peace originated in that all communicants had to greet each other, and if one man refused to greet another, they were asked to settle the matter between them or were both dismissed from the Liturgy.

    I had a friend who was a victim of abuse from a close relative, and had only recently begun to process her hatred of this relative over the abuse. She often attended liturgy (Lutheran) with her family, and could not commune because of her resentment of this person. No one was stopping her, but she knew she would "eat and drink judgment" unto herself if she went to the altar rail next to this person.

    It is a grave and serious matter to be at peace with those communing with you. I propose that the current liturgical practice is in fact too shallow, though I have no better option. How often does the traditionalist commune with hatred in his heart against the cantor singing "Pan de vida" or without forgiveness to the liturgist with whom he just tussled? We often forget that hatred, gossip, withholding forgiveness are all right up there and part of "you shall do no murder."

    If anything, the current practice has weakened any sense of community. "I shook hands with my family, so I'm at peace with EVERYONE!" Then you run to your car, greeting no one on your way. A colleague recently blew up over a very minor slight, and sent an e-mail to myself, as well as my whole parish staff, about how I was incompetent, injurious, should be fired, etc. It could easily print at 2 pages. He ended this rant, "In His Peace." Something is wrong here.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,017
    Communion is more intimate than intercourse. And it's communion with Christ, including his whole Body, not just the bits we like.
    Thanked by 2Gavin E_A_Fulhorst
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,960
    I would agree that the excesses in the peace greeting have caused me to wonder if it should be moved elsewhere in the liturgy. As currently practiced, it is more a greeting and glad/handing session than a sign of peace. I once began the "Lamb of God" chant to keep a visiting priest from turning the peace sign into a circus. It didn't do any good, he left the altar and, I suppose, a good time was had by all.
    Thanked by 1E_A_Fulhorst
  • E_A_FulhorstE_A_Fulhorst
    Posts: 381
    You're right, Gavin: It is easier to focus on God during the Extraordinary form. Trick is noticing someone else other than God while not being obsessed by them. I'd rather ignore the horizontal altogether than ignore the vertical altogether, which by your right standard is necessarily worse.

    Part of the problem: Handshaking has so eclipsed the sign of peace that it is not much of a sign of peace. As moving the thing would require liturgical reform, we must concentrate on implementation, when necessary. (Saying it's unnecessary because it isn't required only sweeps the problem under the rug.)

    What about when a sign of peace would be appropriate? What should it be? Should it include the laity? If so, how?
  • There is an ancient manner of passing the pax which we practised for many years at our Lady of Walsinghm: The pax is shared between priest and deacon who then pass it one-on-one to the acolytes who pass it singly to the choir, a representative of which will then pass it to a person in the nave and the congregation will then pass it around, one person to one person. Thus, it is (as t'was meant to be) the celebrant's or bishop's pax which has made it's special way to all present. This has quite a bit of history behind it and makes OH so much more sense than the free-for-all mini-socials which happen in too many places. They are disruptive of the liturgical decorum and continuum; and make no theological sense in comparison to the above paradigm.
    Another ancient practice which would enhance the pax would be to revive the ancient custom of passing the pax board from celebrant to ministers to choir to people - one person to the next until it has made its rounds. There is a lot of sense in both these practices. There is certainly no sense at all in people running up and down and across aisles or having to shake hands (not really passing the peace) with everyone within an eight or ten foot radius.
    Passing the peace was one of the nicest things that the Council restored to the mass. It's truly sad, though, that like so much else, it was implemented by people who really (this is obvious) didn't know what it was, nor what they were doing. They were all just amateurs who crashed in and made it up as they went along
  • Chrism
    Posts: 869
    Here is the new GIRM on the Rite of Peace:

    The Rite of Peace

    82. There follows the Rite of Peace, by which the Church entreats peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament.

    As for the actual sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by the Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. However, it is appropriate that each person, in a sober manner, offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest.


    Does anyone have reference to the establishment of the handshake as the manner of the sign of peace for the United States? I seem to remember seeing this but can't find the document now.