• Opinions and experiences please. The good, the bad, and the ugly.
    Thanks.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    Pastor remember me. I am in your congregation... ;-)

    I find them too repetitive. They are ok at first, but become like Chinese water torture if prolonged.
  • Taize is wonderful if you have a good cantor that can carry the descants above the chant. They are repetitive, but that's the beauty, I think. The music transcends the mortal into a purely spiritual realm, but has to be done correctly, otherwise it can be like nails on a chalkboard.
  • My experience is that you're more likely to find Taize music and devotions in Episcopal, Anglican and even Methodist parishes than RCC's.
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,092
    It depends on the particular piece. Some wear better than others. There are many ways to vary texture with them, without resorting to gimmickry. Overall, I believe they work very well in Catholic liturgy if chosen and executed with discernment and care.
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • I did a beautiful Laudate Dominum and it worked quite well with just the organ. The children's choir did the drone while an adult lyric soprano did the descants and it was exquisite.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Good "gateway drug" to chant and Latin.
  • Gavin - Hah! That's exactly what I was thinking....
    I did once go to a Taize workshop, but I was, like, ten years old. So I honestly don't remember much about how it is supposed to be done. My guess is minimal, soft instrumentation. But can it be done acapella?
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    I typically don't repeat them over and over and over like they're supposed to be done.

    If a piece is in four parts with a verse (sung over the refrain) and a descant, I'll do it three times:
    - Melody only
    - Four Parts w/verse
    - Four Parts w/descant

    Often it makes a decent quick motet with little/no rehearsal time necessary.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Great minds think alike, Purple...

    The purpose of a Taize chant is to meditate upon the text, so whatever you do in practice should foster that.

    My own preference is for a capella performance, though I also accompany when appropriate to the setting or chant. I prefer to prepare variations (one part, four parts, Latin text, English text, instrument, accompanied, unaccompanied, altered harmony), and do each variation in a set of three - Trinity?

    One thing I do enjoy about Taize is that one can make it heterophonic. Ask one part of the choir to chant the Latin while another does the English. Some hum, some chant. You can be as creative as you like, and it still works. I've even asked vocalists to improvise on it, with great effect.

    Personally, I don't like Taize very much. I find it boring. But I do use it when appropriate for those who get something out of it.
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • francis
    Posts: 10,821
    two or three times a year for the two we do. I call them "tased chants". Ya know, 'don't tase me bro!"

    as gavin admits, the congregation likes to be "tased" here and there, however.
    Thanked by 2Gavin PurpleSquirrel
  • Ton-ic set
    up, whole step
    up one half step ( minor!) then
    pla-gal!
    Five to four,
    steps back down
    Two's now sev'n and now we're in
    MA-JOR!

    That one drives me much more nuts than "Jesus, remember me."
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    I liked to use Taize chant before I had SEP for the Communion. They were easy, the congregation knew them and I've been to Taize, and have experienced the meditative qualities mentioned above. What I did was use the refrain which was close to the proper refrain of the day and then add the verses, in English, to a simple tone. It worked very well, and yes, it worked a cappella too. The repetition helped the congregation participate and many are in four parts, which made the choir happy. Sometimes we would begin the chant, process for Communion and return to sing the verses. Then we would follow with a motet.
  • When I use them, I go about it much the same way that MatthewJ describes. Quick and easy motet. Some can be good starter pieces for choirs.

    Too many repetitions and it dies in the context of the mass, IMO. 4-5x and more might work best for confession services, adoration, processions(?), retreats, etc.
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,700
    David Haas appears to be writing things like this nowadays as well.
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • Claire H
    Posts: 370
    canadash, how did you have access to Taize pieces with text close to the propers?
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    I have two or three Taize books that came with the choir I direct and would look through them to find the refrains. They were very loosely related, but I tried. For example for Corpus Christi the refrains is something like "He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood..." and there is a refrain "Eat my flesh, drink my blood, come to me and never be hungry." It wasn't perfect, but it ended up being a segue into what we do now with the SEP and the Father Weber Chants and at the time, I didn't know what else to do.
  • What, pray, does Taize have that Vespers lacks??

    Or, to put it another way: contemplate what Vespers has that Taize doesn't have!

    Taize is pablum.
    This may explain its populartiy, yes, even in Catholic and Anglican Churches.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    Yes, I agree Osborn. For my situation, it was a beginning, but I don't think it was a bad place to start. We rarely use it now. We've graduated to a meat, potato and veg diet, but I'm still cutting the portions into bite sized pieces. It will require work to move on to the next stage.
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • I don't agree that Taizé music is "pablum." It's meant for a particular style of worship that is contemplative yet communal from beginning to end. In my opinion, it clashes with other music in a (non-Taizé) Mass because the whole contemplative mood and setting need to go with it: lots of candles, ample silence before and during the liturgy, retreat-like atmosphere. In a parish Mass it can seem simplistic, boring, or pointlessly repetitive, whereas in its proper context it can be very effective, affective, moving, inspiring, community-building, prayerful, evocative...
  • Best to do Vespers with music written specifically for its texts: psalm tones, hymn tunes, responsory formulae, versicle/response formulae, etc.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    "in its proper context it can be very effective, affective, moving, inspiring, community-building, prayerful, evocative..."

    Sounds good for Communion to me. Idea: Communion proper chant in Latin, Short motet, Taize chant, Hymn. Fills up the longest Communion procession!
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    After Taize-ing them to sleep during a long communion, you can tase them awake, full organ, with the recessional hymn or postlude.

    Just kidding, of course.

    Sort of.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,978
    Happy hour is here,
    we're past the door.
    Slosh it in the glass,
    and put us on the floor.
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    What, pray, does Taize have that Vespers lacks??

    You can sing Taize in the morning, but you cannot sing Vespers in the morning? You can sing Taize during Communion, but you cannot sing Vespers during Communion?
    Thanked by 2Gavin PurpleSquirrel
  • I love Taize. Case closed. It's meditative, spiritual and easy to sing. I see no problem with using it as a communion hymn, or meditation hymn, and then come in at the end with a joyous and triumphant recessional. I also use it for Offertory (although I hate the idea of that hymn sandwich, so I play a lot of instrumentals here). If people are falling asleep during a long communion, then they have no idea what communion is all about. But, that's just my small, very humble opinion.
    Thanked by 2Gavin PurpleSquirrel
  • bgeorge77
    Posts: 190
    I've called it "Burt Bacharach does chant," but that is perhaps unfair to Burt, who I like. Taize sounds schmaltzy, and increasingly so the more I hear it. It seems to me to be yet one more (Protestant) thing to push aside the (Catholic) propers. That said, it is probably better than 90% of the music you might hear on any given Sunday Mass, but even that is something of a problem: Chant-averse pastors might allow it, and then say "Ok you trad cranks, you got your Latin, that's as far as we go."
  • Gavin - I wish we had a long Communion procession. By the time we introduce whatever it is we're singing.... the procession's almost done! That's why I'm thinking Taizering them would be good because we could do the MatthewJ version... short, but very sweet. :-)
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Bgeorge, the thread welcomed opinions, and I disagree with yours, which is fine. However, I'm curious if you can clarify your claim that Taize is "schmaltzy". What, to you, are the characteristics of "schmaltz" that this music (really more of a performance practice than a repertoire) possesses?

    I ask because I usually define "schmaltz" as triple meter and melodic chromaticism. I thought this was a common understanding, but Taize has none of these traits. If anything, the repertoire has strong musical ties to traditional common-practice hymnody, again, something few would identify as "schmaltz".
  • Taize is Protestant??? Oh my. Better tell that to the editors of the Catholic Book of Worship III, before they get working on number IV. (CBW III is Canada's "official" hymnal, brought to you by our friendly, neighbourhood CCCB.) CBW III is fully Taizered.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Taize is ecumenical and monastic.
  • I'm really hesitant other than my little poem above to comment further in this thread, but Taize came down the pike via a GIA unveiling of the yellow volume without any of what we now call "vetting." And among its strongest proponents was the ubiquitous Sr. Toolan. It used Latin in addition to the English version of the Berthier "mantras" (which was also considered a marketing plus at the time.)
    But the implication of a Catholic pedigree seemed quite strong at the inception, though accounts of Br. Roger's movement and, as Gavin says, monastic and ecumenical were publicized. Taize was soon at LAREC, NPM's, everywhere.
    But we should look at whatever proportion of its influence has taken root in our parishes with new eyes and ears. If newly (or closeted) composed ordinaries, psalters, and propers are now subject to ecclesial review by the local see, then shouldn't other sources (explain how to me "Taize" differs from "Hillsong" in terms of ecumenical and ecclesial outreach) be subject to the imprimatur/nihil obstat processes?
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • Claire H
    Posts: 370
    canadash, we did "Eat This Bread" on Corpus Christi too :)
  • Any one Taize composition is OK. Any two are too much. Mind numbing, IMO.
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • PurpleSquirrel - do you have a hymn board? We don't announce anything music - everything is posted and the people know to look - it took a little time, but so much nicer than having an amplified voice blaring out. We also begin the Communion chant/music, as soon as the priest consumes.
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • I also do not use a hymn board. The former director always made a big deal out of it...."the offertory song is "song, song", on page 56 of the hymnal. Please join the choir as we sing".....it used to drive me absolutely bonkers. When I took over, I found somebody to make a couple of beautiful wall hymn boards for either side of the altar, and told the people we would no longer announce. It's been so much nicer and the mass isn't interrupted so blatantly.
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • Yes we have, and use, a board. I may try not announcing and see how it goes. I think that's a good idea, especially as I always feel like I'm interupting when I announce the Communion music, as we also begin as soon as the priest consumes. However, our congregation is not trainable in that the majority of them are just passing through. But I'm still willing to try.
  • bshonka
    Posts: 6
    Taize music is quite nice and easy to render. However, I have avoided it mainly because in my own experience, those who use it have used it primarily to replace Gregorian Chant, which has been my first love for liturgical music. Since I cannot do Gregorian Chant in my parish setting, I am using the Simple English Propers and also the Meinrad Tones. They work well in our tiny parish in NW Indiana.
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel