hmmm,,,,, I just got through half of it before I have to depart to the church, and the guys seems to make quite a case for the life teen. I am at a loss for words. Part of the problem is this, there are so many good groups that do promote gregorian chant in a great way, but their are equally a few of those bad apples that promote it in such a way that it causes a backlash. Many a brilliant poster on here, have said it best, everything little by little, and with care and grace. You can't just cold turkey people back into gregorian chant. A new generation has been raised on everything other than gregorian chant, and by trying to force something as such, down their throats all at once, will of course produce the same results as Vatican II's big changes.

If young people are properly exposed to gregorian chant, they will accept it. It takes time. Those that are already there with this, in their parishes, are very lucky. Those that are half way there, are still lucky. Those that are starting to expose this, still have a long way, but will eventually with great care, get there.

Who on here likes when people, no matter whether it is music, or anything in life, likes to have something shoved at them, and told, do this??? no one. It's human nature. With great care, love, patience, and teaching, gregorian chant can make a come back. I am not so sure it will make a 100% comeback in our times, or perhaps our childrens, but you have to plant the seed, nuture it with love, and pray that it continues to grow. This has been my point regarding this. You can't just say I'll take hymns out, and thats the end of it,.. etc... etc... Especially in places that probably only know tantum ergo, or pange lingua.

I'm not sure how far he will get with his argument (20:58) that rock music and rap at Mass are somehow more "universal" than the music prescribed by the Church for the Western Rite.

I'm also interested in the fact that he has completely misunderstood inculturation as defined by the Church documents. I would suggest a careful reading of: Sacrosanctum Concilium

"Sometimes in fact she admits such things into the liturgy itself, so long as they harmonize with its true and authentic spirit."

Furthermore, he seems not to recognize the existence of other Rites in the Catholic Church:

"If Liturgy really does belong to one strain of Western tradition . . ."

I kind of agree with Noel above. If the introductions are too incremental you are almost working against yourself. Also there is the risk that you are just introducing another brand of music that fits into a pluralistic mentality. When you are trying to do authentic sacred music for the SPIRITUAL benefit of all. People just end up confused.
At the same time care must be taken in how Sacred music is reintegrated into its native setting of the Roman Rite. One will surely have too much division if a full force alteration takes place overnight, but I don't agree that it would ultimately fail.
Each Parish will be a little different from the next. Each Pastor has different abilities that will affect how well such reintroductions take place.
Then there is the ticking clock... How long before the Pastor is replaced by one who holds the opposite view? How many children grow up with a wrong sense of the Liturgy, while we work too slowly and fearfully?
The prudent path is delicate, but it must be taken up with a sense of urgency because of Who and what is at stake.

Fr Schreiner disappoints in his presentation, in part because he attempts a scholastic defense and justification for a form of music that was never envisioned by the universal Church for the Roman Rite. He is clearly an intelligent man, but his formation lacks and his Hegelian approach is deeply flawed.
We need to help people along in discovering true Sacred Music. It is hard, jarring and sometimes downright depressing when we begin these processes, but they need to occur.
We are accused of elitism and snobbishness but take the insults and turn them into discussions. Early on, Fr Schreiner describes his discussions with a parishioner who cannot grasp the "Lifeteen Mass". Somewhat unfairly, Fr uses the man as a poster boy for poor discussion, but the parishioner is emotional. This is encountered on both sides especially when one feels deeply offended by the actions of another.
Fr Smith's article on praise and worship music is a really excellent answer to some of what Schreiner has to say.
Personally "Lifeteen" is very disappointing in 2012. It is the same ineffective approach to youth that we have been attempting for some 30 plus years. But it is only one symptom of a massive spiritual malaise that affects the whole Church and why our youth trickle away at alarming numbers year after year. So much so that we need a WYD to feel good about ourselves again and WYD might be a solution were it to really embrace catholic orthopraxis. It would shatter the forces of evil as I'm sure the Holy Father hopes every time he goes. But largely what takes place is a great big "Lifeteen" (With not a few notable exceptions) Seriousness in the faith gets stuck in a superficial euphoria that occurs psychologically whenever a massive crowd gets together to make a lot of noise. Not very lasting for the spiritual life. So, as Fr Garrigou-Lagrange would say: "they become spiritual dwarfs". Also read Ronald Knox: "Enthusiasm"

Yes this post is too long, rambles and make massive generalizations, but we must not be afraid to move forward with a program for Sacred Music in every Parish.
It is demanded of us by Our Lord, so we must find a way.

Peter

The unfortunate realization, if Noel, and most of you notice, when a job description for a Catholic position goes out, can you imagine what it says? Experience in Traditional Sacred hymnody and Chant, to more contemporary, praise and worship, etc... desired. It is nice when you have pastors that ideally want to put gregorian chant and sacred music back into church, but how often is that now? Let's face facts and open up the positions availables, all over the nation. They are not only in some instances desiring, but requiring flexibility.

Pastors are being trained at major and minor seminaries, to appreciate and even enjoy that music. So how is it you think you can just plummet into a one style, allbeit, very good one, but where I am at, yes, Florida, not going to happen. In fact you would more than likely last a very short time, unless you have a pastor that totally agrees and lets you implement only Sacred polyphony and Gregorian chant. Otherwise, it will just get you to an unemployment line quicker, down here.

It's like the previous posts, it starts at the Seminary level. If you teach and train the new guys to appreciate the life teen, which they are being trained in, I can guarantee you this from the Florida area, what do you think will be happening in the churches? total Gregorian Chant? No, not in a million years. I am just happy when I can get away with doing some. I used several gregorian pieces throughout Lent/Easter, and thought I would have gotten a better response and feedback. Nope. Nothing.

I did a Catholic Council of Women mass, with a wonderful priest who is also an organist, appreciates Gregorian chant, as I do, and he started the mass with In nomine.... Silence from the congregation. Than, Dominus vobiscum..... (crickets again), no response. He started again, to see if they would respond, (crickets). I was the only one out of the crowd, that responded. He finished the mass in the same manner, using the Latin responses, again, crickets. You could hear a pin drop, after my responses. Than you could hear my sighs. What makes this scenario worst, is I had never ever used or heard of the "Canticle of the Sun" tune diddy, before that mass. It was a song that was planned, not by myself, or the Cantor.... It had already been programmed by the CCW, and when I finished site reading the refrain, and went into the verses, I nearly had a heart attack on the organ, as I heard what the verses were saying. All you could hear was the organ going all over the place at that point. I couldn't believe my eyes. My fault for not having looked at the piece way in advance. I had never heard of of it before, but this is the piece those ladies insisted on. This is what they are getting used to. The minute you change from doing those old diddies, you get that, let's have a talk about the music sit down. Honestly, many of us, tired of fighting, have thrown the towel in.

So we are years away from doing Gregorian in it's entirety. It's just a fact. So, with that said, yes, I have had to be careful and ease into it, as it has not been giving the approval or acceptance, as quickly as I thought it might.

This makes me uncomfortable as well. Going to the sources?

De Musica Sacra tells us that "The difference between sacred, and secular music must be taken into consideration."

Musicam Sacram states that "Nevertheless, the introduction into the celebration of anything which is merely secular, or which is hardly compatible with divine worship, under the guise of solemnity should be carefully avoided: this applies particularly to the celebration of marriages."

I just have to ask: how can you claim that electric guitars are anything but secular? Same with drum sets. If those are not secular, then what is?

However, most of the music played there can probably qualify as "religious music." But it should be played outside the liturgy. Since there's more to Lifeteen than the Mass, then why can't there be a separate time for praise and worship? That's exactly what religious music is for:

"10. Religious music is any music which, either by the intention of the composer or by the subject or purpose of the composition, serves to arouse devotion, and religious sentiments. Such music "is an effective aid to religion" (Musicæ sacræ disciplina, idem.). But since it was not intended for divine worship, and was composed in a free style, it is not to be used during liturgical ceremonies."

This video goes against everything our Holy Father has done with the liturgy.

This priest is not stupid....he's just been totally misled and trained in how to mislead people using funny stories and comments.

"by the way WE worship..." any more questions, class?

MichaelM's account of the priest getting poor response to Latin doesn't surprise me. Father just didn't understand what sort of congregation he had. If he were to say Mass at a First Friday or First Saturday devotion, or for a rosary group, he would probably find a group of people who accept or even welcome Latin. But a "Catholic Council of Women" is full of people too busy to go to such events: they're focused on charitable activism in the here and now, and less interested in classic devotion, Catholic culture, liturgical spirituality, etc. They probably like feel-good songs that have a "motivational" aspect. For that sort of group, I'd pick "Mass for the City": music to launch a crusade to.

My kids LOVE chant and have taken to it quite readily and easily. On the other hand, so many kids just do not have the opportunity. I am a music teacher in my Diocese, in addition to being DM at my parish and the other day I had the middle school students play "Music Director" and come up with music for a liturgy for Ordinary Time, Christmastime and Eastertide. The differences in both schools was amazing. The school where I am DM picked chants and hymnody (and they know a LOT of Glory and Praise music, believe me), while the other school (whose DM is VERY liberal and plays NO chant), chose songs like "Table of Plenty" for communion!!! In order to respect the other DM, I did not say anything, but did explain that I would not have chosen that song (or most of the others they chose) because organ music is very important and hymns were written for the mass. Needless to say, I heard from the other DM who was EXTREMELY (to say the least) upset with me. They also have a HUGE LifeTeen following there, whereas my parish does not. And, the kids explained that "Table of Plenty" is used all the time at communion.

The bottom line here is that our children need to be exposed to chant and polyphony before they will be accepting of it. I started out with a couple of classes in music history and had the kids bring in music from Lord of the Rings and had them listen to the music, which they loved. Then I played the themes on the organ and they realized it was the same music. That seemed to sell them on chant. I also purchased a CD with children's chant and had the students sing to that. Hearing other kids actually sing the music made it easier, I think, for them to be accepting of it.

I have had only a cursory look at the first five minutes and was interrupted. I have one brief observation over a specific remark of the priest-presenter that all of us, "them" and "us" would agree upon (which he states): once you leave the extreme polar position about the propriety of chant vs. the kazoo for sung worship, all bets are off.
However, what remains for me to hear is how he couches his argument all the way to the typical LifeTeen Band model. But we also have to consider that as we systematically move away from Latin or other sacral language chant as ideal, how far are we willing to concede is the territory that still passes Church muster? To me, that is the more compelling question than Life Teen stuff. As the wag sez "It all went downhill when the first monk thought his parallel fifths were cool during Lauds."

Didn't watch. But I do have to say, on the topic of LifeTeen and youth ministries in general:

When I hear people ask why teens aren't at church, I have to ask why their parents aren't bringing them.

The fact the other DM was upset with you says that you are, truly, doing your job, congratulations.

I am on the NPM discussion list and the rather insipid discussions and digs at priests and bishops caused me to drop my membership after one year. Few there have any concept of being a church musician...like this priest who is a jokester for insipid liturgies that, like disco clothes, are out dated in a very short time.

Please, prayers for the soul of Donna Summer, who worked for me years ago in Germany when she was Donna Gaines from Boston, a sweet person, with a deep faith without a mean bone in her body, who died today.

This is really sad. What is worse is that this kind of thing is infecting the liturgy like a virus and an antedote needs to be administered. I happened to be at a Confirmation Mass where the teen group was "performing" and they were using selections from Matt Maher and Spirit and Song. No one sang and the music was just awful.