NOH and a half diminished seventh chord
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592

    The NOH accompaniment for the ASCENSION has a half diminished seventh chord:

    image

    Believe it or not, they are usually allowed, while Dominant Sevenths are totally forbidden by most (don't tell Peter Wagner or Max Springer!).

    Learn more:

    http://www.ccwatershed.org/liturgy/feast/ascension-b-in-some-dioceses-this-replaces-the-7th-sunday-of-easter,173/
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    JMO, you're referring to the second inversion G-Bb-Db-F (on third half note)? Isn't it really a 4/2 dominant in disguise resolving to I6, which seems to be your assertion?
    Is this a big deal?
    Thanked by 1ryand
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Depends how Schenkerian one wishes to get, I suppose. In terms of function, I can see a defense for V-I, but in terms of color, it is probably well-described as a o/43
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    I definitely hear it as Charles described.
    Schenkerian analysis or not, it's obvious as a V-I gesture, just inverted.

    Big deal, anyway... WWMD? (what would Messiaen do?)
    Thanked by 1Charles in CenCA
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    I love it! But some are bothered by a seventh chord with a Tritone in chant accompaniment.
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Well, some people are silly!

    It seems impossible, in my experience, to use a root-position dom7 effectively in chant accompaniment. Inversions are rare too, but in the right context (like above), voices that are moving fluidly might land on a tritone. It's what comes before and after that seems to make the difference between it sounding like modal accompaniment or a harmonization of a hymn tune.

    In this example, it looks like the author was driving at a descending bass line, and the smoothest voice-leading for the other parts created this half-dim/dom7 harmony by coincidence - but the "problem" was beautifully framed by what is before and after, and we really don't hear it as a jarring harmony since the voices all move so fluidly.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Moving bass lines with defined destinations are JMO's bread n buttuh. ;-)
    Thanked by 2ryand Ragueneau
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Something's causing my laptop to double post. Must be because this thread is for theory geeks. Ya can't Telemann how to Handel his Basso Continuo, so I'm going Bach to bed.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Gavin
  • francis
    Posts: 10,850
    ya cant put music theory in a can people

    in the end, music is an art guided by rules not ruled by guides.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Gavin
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    I hear it as one big unfolding of Ab. The triad in the opening of this example is unfolded via V (the Eb triad), whose bass passes through Db into the first inversion Ab triad; the "Ab-ness" of it never really goes away. In my opinion, the whole passage should be understood horizontally, not vertically.

    The "interesting" note here is the F neighbor, which is an augmentation of the top line's neighbor motion that occurs *three times* in the passage. Very clever. The composer could have simply held the Eb across, but as Ryan noted above, the F seems to mitigate the "dominant-ness" of the passage. And you wouldn't get the neat motivic relationship.
    Thanked by 1ryand