Advice needed.

David Andrew

I have a sensitive and difficult situation for which I need some advice.

A local TLM group has scheduled a Missa cantata to be held at our parish (under what I feel is nothing more than false pretenses), after obtaining permission to bring a "bus tour" in as part of a pilgrimage of historic churches in the area, with our church as the last stop and what the Pastor was led to believe was going to be a private OF Mass for the pilgrims, offered by a priest on the tour.

It turns out that the organizer, who is also the music director of a parish that regularly offers orchestral Masses in the EF, had planned all along to stage this as an EF Missa cantata, and has all but pushed me aside in my capacity as parish music director by planning that he would serve as principal organist for the event as well as bringing his choir and schola, while "inviting" me, after the fact, to "help out" if I was interested and available, in the spirit of "cooperation". (I am not familiar with the quality of these groups, and have little knowledge of his background or skills as an organist.)

Worse, the Pastor (as well as parish secretaries) assumed that this was to be a private affair. It turns out that the organizer has intended all along to make this a widely-advertised event open to the public. At first, it was represented to us that it would be a "bus tour" of between 100 and 200 people. Now he is expecting many more, stating that it will be a wonderful event to honor Our Lady. Still worse, this is to take place on the evening of our patronal feast day. (Historically, our parish does not celebrate our feast day on the actual day, but rather acknowledges it during the weekend Masses prior to it, unless it falls on a Saturday or Sunday. In the event that it falls on a weekday, a Mass is offered at 8 AM only, owing to the fact that our patronal feast day occurs in the middle of July, when the ambient temperature inside the church can reach upwards of 90 degrees or more.)

We have a men's schola that has become quite good, and when they found out what was afoot of course expressed interest in singing for the event. But the organizer wants his schola to be mixed with mine, and then he'll let me conduct them, rather than giving me the prerogative of directing the parish schola on its own.

Despite demands from the Pastor for clarification, all the organizer has done is repeatedly thank him for permitting the event to be held (despite the fact that he has not given any such permission for the event as it is now described), thus making it appear as though the Pastor is fully "on board" with it, and has issued a statement regarding who has agreed to help out (all people from his parish or the TLM group), excluding my name from the list of participants or people he has talked with about it. (I should point out that our Pastor, while supportive of the EF, is not himself trained in it as of yet, and has no particular objection to the EF. In fact, our parish offers it once a month on a Saturday morning by a visiting priest, and I have served has organist/cantor for these Masses for three years now).

Now, I have no doubt that some of the players in this matter may stumble upon this post and view it as a demonstration of sour grapes, stubbornness or some kind of power play on my part for bringing it up in a public forum (despite the fact that I've carefully mentioned no names), as they've accused me of similar things in the past. However, they've left both the Pastor and me with few choices other than conceding and letting the event proceed without any further say in the matter. If the Pastor pulls the plug on it, they will paint him as an obstructionist. If I try to assert my authority as music director for the parish, they will characterize it as an act of pride and jealousy. Actually, I have been working quite hard to establish a reputation for our parish as a locus of musical and liturgical development. We've now been essentially bullied into cooperating with them (as if we had invited them all along, rather than the truth of it - they've invited themselves) and we are somehow expected to stand back while our parish is commandeered on its feast day.

I should close by stating that while I find the entire affair - the deception (covered with claims of "misunderstandings", which I view as an act of passive aggression), the lack of professional courtesy, and the manipulation of the Pastor's authority and mine distasteful and angering, I am not at this point ascribing evil or wanton behavior to the instigators. However, I don't believe that anyone should have to tolerate such presumptuous behavior, and find their claims good will and good intentions to be rather disingenuous.

What would you do in a situation like this? Has this ever happened to you?

marajoy

Oh dear.

Well, what would *I* do...
In all honesty (keeping in mind that this is easier for me to say than to actually do ;-)
for this instance, it does seem to me that there is not a whole lot that you can actually do without causing a situation that is far worse than what it is already.
I would suggest that in the spirit of humility and peace-keeping, you simply allow them to go along with their plan and back-off. (One thing I am not quite clear on- is there a reason that you feel you need to be more involved, other than pride (you feel you've been deceived and are now realizing it is a bigger affair,) and just the "need to be involved?" At this point, those do not seem to me to be good enough reasons to cause strife...)

Then, if/when this group wants to work with you in the future, you have learned from this experience and can either simply decline to allow them to use your church, or else lay down VERY clear guidelines, and perhaps even get something in writing.

However, please, please, please, in the spirit of Christian charity, do not burn bridges. You feel you have been wronged, but still, try to "be the better man." Do whatever YOU can to prevent this from blowing up and giving the traditional Catholic community a bad name in your diocese. You can't control their actions, or what has already happened, or their lack of wanting to work with you or communicate, but you can control your own response.

Actually, at this point, since you sound rather bitter about it, I would simply politely decline having anything at all to do with the event- what's the worst that would happen? They're not going to desecrate the church or something, so at least you can trust them with that!

David Andrew

It's not a matter of pride, although I appreciate the candor of your remarks.

Both I and the Pastor feel that we've been "blind-sided". The organizer wasn't honest and forthcoming with the details regarding the nature of the visit until after he had obtained permission to come to our church (under false pretenses) in the first place. It was dishonest, and to "invite" me to participate in an event in a marginal way in my own parish was to my mind professionally insulting.

Plus, it gives the impression that our own people are incapable of celebrating a Mass on our own feast day.

And, actually by walking away, given that the organizer had offered what he felt was a legitimate opportunity to "participate" (he even offered to pay me for my time!), I will give the appearance of not "playing well with others".

You see just how "no-win" this situation is? No matter how I play it, I'll look like a petulant child.

Bottom line: this organist has done this before for a funeral, and the Pastor was not comfortable with his playing or his approach to the Mass. Additionally, we have been working together to systematically improve the music of the parish, and when the Pastor found out that the event was not merely a bus tour but rather a full EF Missa cantata with the same individual essentially directing all of the music for it, he became concerned over the quality of the musicians coming in, and asked for my advice. I share in his concern not out of pride but out of a desire to safeguard the hard work we and a number of parishioners in the choir (especially the men's schola) have already engaged in. You can see my dilemma.

noel jones, aago

Events like this, and that's what this is, an event, are cancelled all the time and this one should be, too.

It's like an army making a tentative advance, trying to see how much ground they can take. If they meet heavy resistance, they retreat, and the resistance here should be the pastor who can simply call them and say, "We do not celebrate the feast day here at anytime but 8AM because of the heat of the day for the protection of those who attend. Your initial plan to drop in, say a Mass for a small group and leave was fine, but this has grown far beyond what we can permit here. I'll be glad to suggest other parishes that might welcome your group, places that have air conditioning and that would be safer for you and your followers."

Gavin

I agree with pretty much all that Mara said. I would tend to think that, if they are "borrowing" the church, they're going to be in charge of providing the music. It seems from your comment that they may have used false pretenses to secure the building. If so, this is the concern of your pastor. I hate to see us get so caught up in clerical blunders - we have enough stress just dealing with our music!

I'd echo Mara's advice: just back down. Tell them you've found you have another commitment, and let them know your expectations on the use of your loft/organ. Again, it does sound like they acted in an underhanded manner, and were (perhaps unintentionally, perhaps not) disrespectful of yourself and your fine program. But the key issue here is over building use, which falls on your pastor's shoulders and not yours.

PaixGioiaAmor

I'm also in a large, centrally located, urban church with no air conditioning and a slowly growing reputation as a place for good music and liturgy.

I say you just let it go on, be involved in whatever way, and bill it as still being an outside group planning a mass and using your space.

We have this happen at our church with some frequency. We have even had a priest who has some celebrity for healing the sick come to say mass. The pastor will be there, as will I if I'm needed, but we simply say in the bulletin that "Fr. so and so will be visiting with the purpose to conduct a special healing mass with individual blessings with a saints' relic, etc. etc. All are invited."

So with this, I'd simply advertise it to the parish as saying "A visiting priest on pilgrimage will be saying a special EF mass on _______. All are invited to this opportunity to celebrate the timeless TLM mass." Or something simliar.

David Andrew

Do whatever YOU can to prevent this from blowing up and giving the traditional Catholic community a bad name in your diocese. You can't control their actions, or what has already happened, or their lack of wanting to work with you or communicate . . .

This is confusing, as it is because of their behavior in this case, and in previous situations, that they already have what some would consider to be a questionable reputation in the diocese, even among other TLM groups. To permit them to continue behaving in such inappropriate and unprofessional ways only serves to drive an even deeper rift and lack of trust and cooperation with them and ultimately with the advancement of the TLM in the area and indeed throughout the state.

My Pastor, as I said, is very open and sympathetic to such advancement, but similarly cannot be expected to show generosity and openness when groups such as this one engage is this kind of behavior.

I am not so much worried about my reputation as I am about fostering a healthy appreciation and support of both the TLM generally and those who are actively engaging in it locally, which becomes progressively more difficult when members of their group treat newly-emerging groups in such a disrespectful and dismissive manner.

marajoy

I agree with those that said at this point it should be the pastor's call on whether to cancel the Mass or not.

However, another thought-
If you do choose to cancel the Mass, then (whether it is deserved or not,) you will appear to have done something that could imply you are a jerk. However, if you simply sit back and either have minimal participation or none at all (you expressed earlier your concern about how this would look,) then you have done nothing that that any reasonable person would consider wrong. Anyone's negative interpretation of those actions (or lack of) is not your responsibility.

ETA: obviously, IMHO, the latter is far preferable b/c it leaves room for possible future reconciliation.

Jahaza

I understand the frustration over the bad way things were handled, but I'm not entirely clear on what the practical problem is? Is it that they're bad musicians? Certainly I would be upset if it was the Church where I serve as master of ceremonies for the traditional Mass.

I don't really see how you can cancel the Mass. What they're planning to do (though they didn't ask for it in an honest and straightforward way) is pretty clearly provided for by Summorum Ponitificum:

"Art. 5. § 3 For faithful and priests who request it, the pastor should also allow celebrations in this extraordinary form for special circumstances such as marriages, funerals or occasional celebrations, e.g. pilgrimages."

Well I don't condone it, I'm not surprised at their subterfuge given the difficulty of getting pastors to allow such celebrations even though Summorum Pontificum says they should agree to them.

A comprimise position might be having a low Mass? (Explaining the temperature issue.)

In terms of how to handle it now, if you have the strong backing of your pastor, can you just explain the situation to them directly? You're the music director of the parish and you want to make sure that things are done in accordance with the customs of your parish (assuming those things are correct and not incorrect) and the quality that the parish expects? Are you expecting the music to be bad? It's unclear to me if you're concerned about that or if just the pastor was.

(This is written in a bit of a rush...so apologies that it is itself a bit direct.)

Charles in CenCA

I am not so much worried about my reputation as I am about fostering a healthy appreciation and support of both the TLM generally and those who are actively engaging in it locally, which becomes progressively more difficult when members of their group treat newly-emerging groups in such a disrespectful and dismissive manner.

David, I support your understanding of the political realities and questionable ethics this situation evokes. But consider this solution-
Graciously withdraw from direct participation for the event (using Noel's term) with the sole exception of being available to answer strategic questions the visitors may bring. With or without your own schola, attend this Mass with an intent to pray for conversion of hearts, no matter what thoughts or "product" it may evoke in the moment. In any case, whether you're fulfilling your office or being a member of the faithful assembled, the focus of all attention ought to be praising God and thanking His Son for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass through the power of the Spirit.
I'm not sure that under the circumstances you've described in detail that I could follow my own advice, tho' I've done my solution in smaller situations in the past.
If it has to be a "busman's holiday" one ought to really just take in the beauty of the ride.
Peace my brother.

David Andrew

The problem has been solved, the event will go forward, without any participation on my part. I will be taking a "busman's holiday" on this one. There will, however, be consequences. In future, any group that wishes to organize an event like this will be expected to submit a proposal in writing, and a final decision will not be given over the phone, and certainly not until all parties effected (myself, sacristans, etc.) have been consulted.

The Pastor and I are both concerned about the way this was handled, brought in through the back door rather than being presented in an upfront and professional manner. We don't want (nor do either of us believe that it is appropriate) to allow this kind of situation to occur again.

I'm sorry if I've given the impression that my reaction is being driven by pride or that I'm intentionally trying to be unreasonable.

Jahaza, please read my posts in this thread carefully, as I go to great pains to explain that neither the Pastor nor I are antagonistic toward the EF. Quite the contrary. The difficulty is found in the use of deception and subterfuge on the part of the organizers of this event, which was totally unnecessary, as it is a well-known fact that our parish regularly offers the EF and that I have been actively involved in music for the EF for several years now. They had already put the plans in place for a Missa cantata, so they'd likely take the idea of making it a "low Mass" as a kind of obstruction.

I appreciate everyone's input.

For the sake of letting the dust settle, I'd like to request that a kind administrator please close and sink this thread.

Wendi

Jahaza,

The practical problem (as I read it) is as follows...

The pastor has very real concerns (based on past experience) that the EF Mass offered would lack quality music and that it would hamper his (the pastor's) efforts to foster an increased appreciation and support for the EF Mass at the parish.

David's pastor is VERY supportive of the Extraordinary Form of the Mass. He and David have been working for three years to improve the standing of the EF Mass in the hearts of the people of their area and I can very much understand their worry.

The TLM group that David is speaking of has a reputation across the state of having a siege mentality and not "playing well with others". That being the case, if they continue to behave this way and get away with it, this particular TLM group is acutally undermining efforts by other groups to foster an appreciation and increased access to the EF Mass.

I don't live in that area anymore, but I do know this group and even out where I am (almost three hours west) they are known and not really respected, even by other members of the TLM community.

In my personal opinion we do NOT need groups exhibiting this kind of unprofessional, duplicitous behavior to add fuel to that particular fire. It's already difficult enough to get people to be open minded towards a reform of the reform.

As always...Your mileage may vary.

ContraBombarde

I agree and support your views David Andrew. It was not, and is not proper for a group to come in and do such a thing, without full proper consent, and review by all parties involved.

I have been down this road before, and this is why rules and regulations regarding bringing in outside musicians and vocalists, for funerals and weddings, and other events, are put in place at parishes.

I have had groups come in to do things in the past, which have absolutely embarrassed my pastor and I, damaging equipment, erasing organ presets, leaving cabinets that were supposed to be secured, open,,, and on and on.

On one occasion, an outside musician came in to do a wedding at a previous parish I worked at, and reversed the wedding marchs that they had selected, for processional and recessional, and would you know it, I got a tongue lashing from the couple a week after the wedding. I told them, this is what you get for bringing in an outside musician!

You would be amazed at how many outside musicians, even sacred liturgical ones, that can come in and cause trouble. Thank goodness you and your pastor now have a perspective on it, and in the future, are setting policies to that effect.

God Bless and good luck!

Jahaza

David, sorry, really not trying to offend. Like I said, I understand the difficulties of working with outside groups.

Jahaza, please read my posts in this thread carefully, as I go to great pains to explain that neither the Pastor nor I are antagonistic toward the EF.

Perhaps my comment is unclear. My point wasn't whether or not you and the pastor are open to the EF, but what their past experiences had been in general and whether they knew that you were receptive to it (which I don't doubt). For instance, your parish web site doesn't list the Mass as being in the EF. That's not to excuse the behaviour (as I wrote)... but an effort to try to understand the sources of the behaviour so as to be able to redirect their energies more productively.

Wendi: "That being the case, if they continue to behave this way and get away with it, this particular TLM group is acutally undermining efforts by other groups to foster an appreciation and increased access to the EF Mass."

Which is why I suggested that if he has the strong support of the pastor perhaps the best thing to do would be to explain the problem to them directly to get the music fixed. It stinks to be the guy who has to have to conversation, but David (or his pastor?) might be the one who can actually get it done?

Wendi

I agree with you wholeheartedly, and it is my hope that the pastor will have that conversation with the relevant people. It may be taken more to heart if it is coming from a priest sympathetic to and supportive of the Extraordinary Form.

CharlesW

My pastor would have squelched this before it got this far. He simply would not have tolerated it.

ContraBombarde

Mine would have too.

Anytime I have gone to play a funeral of a deceased love one, or a wedding, I would contact the DM personally, request his/her permission, with the understanding that nothing would be changed, moved, taken, etc... and offer to have a bench fee paid, right off the bat. No questions asked. I have had several very nice and generous DM's permit me to go and do as such, rejecting a bench fee. When they did that, I would instruct the family to go and write a check, and bring it to the office, for the DM which was always the organist. This way, they were covered for the mass. It is only right.

With regard to his specific experience, being that these people have a reputation for causing incidents or trouble, I would have had the pastor put a stop to it. It is the reputation of the church, and the staff, that take a hit, if things go wrong. The outside people for which the mass was advertised to, probably have no idea that it isn't the church's people, or staff, are involved, if things don't go properly, etc....

There should always be an understanding, agreement, and respect from those coming from outside. It is only fair. Your coming into someone else's home.

Wendi

I don't think it would be such a delicate situation if this was for an OF Mass.

The TLM community in Michigan has been treated for the last 40 years as the red-headed stepchild at the family reunion. This has had the effect of making some members and leaders very defensive, which has the effect of making it much harder to call them on unprofessional behavior without being accused of not being supportive of the EF.

Not everyone in the TLM community has the siege mentality, (I personally know several perfectly lovely people in that community) but enough do, to give the group as a whole, a less than stellar reputation.

I'm sure Michigan isn't the only state in the union with this kind of situation, I just wish that the people causing the difficulties here would realize that it's always better to be up front and professional and let God take care of the rest.

Carl D

David, I'm glad you had the courage to raise this discussion - it may be similar in ways to situations we could each encounter.

There's one other resource I haven't seen mentioned yet. I would have had the Pastor call up 3 Pastors who had previously hosted the group to ask, "what do you wish you would have done in my shoes?"

You might get a more useful insight than just the yes/no decision.

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