length of vidi aquam or asperges me
  • hilluminar
    Posts: 120
    In the EF Mass, is the choir required to chant the vidi aquam during the Pascha season, (or the asperges me the rest of the year), in it's entirety: vidi aquam, verse, gloria Patri, and repeat of vidi aquam? Our priest goes down the aisle sprinkling the assembly and returns to the Sanctuary at a pretty fast clip. Then he stands there while our choir finishes winding through the vidi aquam. It is an akward feeling for the choir to have the priest just standing there, waiting for us to finish. Do we have to sing the whole vidi aquam, or can we shorten it?
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    I think you could replace the repeat by an organ versetto, but in my opinion the more advisable remedy would be to ask the celebrant to move slowly and reverent during the aspersion.
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    At our EF Mass, we don't have an organ, but the priest is well aware of the issue and doesn't want us to cut anything, so he he knows that he has to adjust his speed accordingly. I would imagine (although it's only a guess) that most priests who sing the EF want things done by the book, even if it means 30 seconds of standing and waiting.

    This does bring up a good question, though: for the Vidi aquam/Asperges, and even more for the Introit, is it allowed to cut the psalm and/or Doxology? I know that verses can be added.
  • Chrism
    Posts: 868
    We've run into the same issue with the Asperges/Vidi Aquam and don't cut. Our priests have generally learned to slow down. In fact, now we have the reverse problem on Passion Sunday when the Gloria Patri is omitted--the priest ends up walking back to the sanctuary in silence. I believe there is a rubric for the priest to bow during the Gloria Patri, which can add some time to his action. There are also some (awful) polyphonic (read, show tunes) versions which are shorter.

    As far as the Introit Psalm and Doxology, again we never cut these. In a "worst case" scenario, for example if the priest is waiting to intone the Gloria in excelsis and we're still on the Introit, we would switch to recto tono on the second pass through the Introit respond itself after the Doxology, and then rush through Kyrie XVI.
  • rogue63
    Posts: 410
    2 pennies worth of thought:

    Goodness, I always wished it would take longer! Take that time for all it's worth. One of chant's great joys is the word-painting so frequently employed. The joyous rush of knowing that God's mercy is always available to us, that He waits for us with outstretched arms, is perfectly expressed in the Asperges me. I wish I was still singing it every Sunday!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    I suspect that the EF does not allow much leeway. However, in my opinion, it does allow the use of further psalm verses, so on Palm Sunday, if the Asperges plus verse plus repeat Asperges is not sufficient, after the repeat, sing the next verse of the same psalm and another repeat.

    For the OF, however, there seems to be no obligation to sing the psalm verse; we sing
    Vidi aquam once and that suffices. The principle is that processional music lasts for the duration of the procession. Needless to say, one should not truncate a chant; the whole antiphon should be sung.
  • hilluminar
    Posts: 120
    "The principle is that processional music lasts for the duration of the procession." Exactly. I just asked the question about being obligated to chant the entire asperges me/vidi aquam to a student of Dr. Mary Berry. He said that there are no rules as to the length of the either. This all occurs outside of Mass. One may omit the verse, or the Gloria Patri, but the Antiphon should always be sung. We must fit our chanting to the length of the action being performed.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    chant should fit length of action in a perfect celebration... sometimes hard to do in an imperfect world, but we try our best.
  • ProfKwasniewskiProfKwasniewski
    Posts: 242
    During the Asperges time, our priest would walk down the center, sprinkling, and then walk back up the center. During Paschaltide, when he realized how much more time he had, he walked down the center sprinkling to one side, then turned and went up the northern side of the church, genuflected at the front center, went down the center sprinkling in the other direction, and lastly went up the southern side, until he reached the center again. It was perfectly timed, and everybody got wetter than usual.
    Thanked by 1IanW
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    A common practice in the 1950's, at least among Franciscans, was simply to sing the repeat of "Vidi Aquam" RECTO TONO.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694

    If the priest isn't stopping, turning to face the altar and bowing for the Gloria Patri, that might add some time to the sprinkling.
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