Einstein reminds us...
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    image
    Therefore, do not be discouraged in your efforts to promote excellent sacred music. Opposition will be the norm.
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  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    Which Einstein?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein

    you will find it on this page
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    bumping... this is too good not to repeat every six hours... whether it came from einstein or not.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,216
    Well, at least, unlike many alleged quotations circulating on the net, it is attributed to a specific document ( cited in the above Wikiquote article ).
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  • JonLaird
    Posts: 245
    Surely Einstein must be referring to one's own mind, occupied, as it often is, with selfishness and worldly fears, at opposition with one's own spirit or soul, which by the grace of God has the power to transcend these limitations and thrive by living in the light of Christ, and thereby deserve to be called "great." If he meant it in the sense you imply, he would have said "mediocre spirits" and not "mediocre minds." And if he does mean it in this sense, it only tells part of the story, because souls which possess the "greatness" previously mentioned also encounter violent opposition from very brilliant minds (not to mention puny ones).

    The point is that the violent battle occurs within, and if one permits grace to be victorious, one can always do what is right, no matter what anyone else says or does.
    Thanked by 2JulieColl Kathy
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    JonLaird

    Sounds like a case for great opposition toward Einstein. lol.
  • JonLaird
    Posts: 245
    My case is just this -- we often too hastily apply the last beatitude to ourselves and ignore the rest. We would do well to be merciful to others, not stand on our self-righteousness by insulting their mental capacity.
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  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Of course, if you're encountering opposition from mediocre minds, it does not follow that you are a great spirit.
    Thanked by 3francis chonak Spriggo
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    JonLaird:

    So sorry. I couldn't resist that one. Just ribbing you a little. Have a great day and keep that mind a hummin!
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  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    Let me see if I understand the reasoning at work:

    ......If I have a great spirit, then I will encounter opposition from mediocre minds.
    ......I am encountering opposition from mediocre minds.
    ......-----------------------
    ......Therefore, I have a great spirit.

    Now, it's been a while since I took formal logic .... :-/
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    well... it depends on which 'spirit' you have -- i imagine...
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    ya know, i posted this here because i believe that many many musicians have great spirits... it takes a great spirit to even pull off music professionally, and an even greater spirit to pull of excellent music in the RC church these days, so I commend all the great spirits out there, and am just trying to remind us all that we WILL meet with opposition when trying to present great fine music... it's just part of the turf we walk on!
    Thanked by 1JonLaird
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    He doesn't have the spirit of Vatican II -ducking and running. LOL.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    ......If I have a great spirit, then I will encounter opposition from mediocre minds.
    ......I am encountering opposition from mediocre minds.
    ......-----------------------
    ......Therefore, I have a great spirit.

    Now, it's been a while since I took formal logic .... :-/
    That would be the case for and "if and only if" statement.

    The only correct logical conclusion from the statement "If I have a great spirit, then I will encounter opposition from mediocre minds" is the contrapositive:

    If I will not encounter opposition from mediocre minds, then I do not have a great spirit.

    ( if p then q ) is logically equivalent to ( if not q then not p ).
    Thanked by 3Kathy ronkrisman MarkThompson
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,394
    CHG,

    How wonderful to be reminded of something I once knew (I think) about 50 years ago.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    Instead of the conditional ( if p then q ) and its equivalent contrapositive ( if not q then p ), one can also make the simple (inclusive) disjunctive statement ( q or not p ) with the same truth value. Thus one could equivalently assert:

    I will encounter opposition from mediocre minds, or I do not have a great spirit (or both).
  • JonLaird
    Posts: 245
    so I commend all the great spirits out there, and am just trying to remind us all that we WILL meet with opposition when trying to present great fine music... it's just part of the turf we walk on!

    Francis, I do certainly agree and I know I can speak for others in saying we appreciate the encouragement!
    Thanked by 1francis
  • mrcoppermrcopper
    Posts: 653
    Clarify this please Chuck: if I encounter opposition from a mind, unknown whether great or mediocre, must I first assess that mind before I know what I'm drinking?
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  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    Only if you want to!
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Monkey wrench time.
    In my experience, both "spirit" and "mind" are governed by "heart." I would defer to another famed quote, not of a brilliant mind, but of a great and deeply flawed poet-king, "If today you hear His voice, harden not your hearts."
    The morasses we generally find ourselves amucked within seem most often caused by a cult of mediocrity. Mediocrity is not a condition of the mind, it is the attitude of the mind as governed by the heart, whether hard or worse, lazy.
  • WGS
    Posts: 300
    The following quotation seems apt to the discussion:

    “Sometimes we are inclined to class those who are once-and-a-half witted with the half-witted, because we appreciate only a third part of their wit.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau, Walden
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Liam
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    I like this quotation. THe Irish use it as an argument against the temperance movement.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Temperance? In Ireland? Is definite outrage!!!!
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  • Liam
    Posts: 5,093
    Isn't it odd how "abstinence" got confused with "temperance"?
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    That would be the case for and "if and only if" statement.


    Oh, I know that! It's been a few years since I took formal logic, yes, but after all I did get an A in the class.

    What I mean is, I think the Einstein quotation is appealing for precisely the illogical reason that someone who suffers opposition can misinterpret it so as to take comfort in the assurance that he has, in fact, a great spirit (and it was Einstein who said so). Similar poor logic is often on display in thinking like this:

    ....."Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country."
    .....I am not accepted in my own country.
    .....---------------
    .....Thus my opinions are proven to be prophetic.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,193
    Exactly, so back to logic. Consider the statement which is a careful if-then restatement of "Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country" :

    "If I am a prophet, then I am not accepted in my own country."

    The equivalent contrapositive statement is:

    "If I am accepted in my own country, then I am not a prophet."

    And the equivalent disjunction is:

    "I am not accepted in my own country, or I am not a prophet (or both)."

    Hence, if you are not accepted in your own country, it is not possible to conclude that your opinions are proven to be prophetic.
  • mrcoppermrcopper
    Posts: 653
    Darn.
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    Was it temperance in 19th century Ireland???? Well yes actually it was
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,980
    Was it temperance in 19th century Ireland???? Well yes actually it was


    The Irish are known as legendary imbibers of spirits. LOL. It's hard to imagine "demon rum" being banished for long in that country. Even if it were, the Irish in this country drink more than enough to make up for it.
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    Rum? never rum, nothing to make it with here. Poteen - you can make that with potatoes. And believe it or not there was a huge temperance movement here, and still is, among the young.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,825
    OK... I am going with the flow on the tangent... new quote from G.K. Chesterton
    pintPipeCross.jpg
    500 x 500 - 31K
    Thanked by 1bonniebede
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