Presenting a case for funeral pay
  • Hello colleagues,

    In my current full-time position (which includes liturgy/music work and teaching K-8 general music in our attached school), my contract stipulates I am to be paid stipends for weddings but funerals are included in my salary. Our previous Director of Music (who was part-time only) received $40 stipends for funerals. Every so often I bring up the case that I should receive the same or more, and I've been asked to present a written proposal for why I should be paid funeral stipends.

    The parish's current reasoning to NOT pay stipends is the following:
    -Based on a count of how many funerals we have each year, it was determined that funerals come up often enough to be considered a regular part of my job, just like ordinary weekend Masses and school Masses. Weddings are considered enough extra work outside of normal work hours to warrant a stipend, but funerals are seen as ordinary occurrences with little extra work to be done.
    -Cantors are paid $40 stipends because they have to come in at odd hours, but most funerals take place when I am already in the office.
    -The parish charges the funeral home a standard amount which includes stipends for funeral director, servers, etc. Giving me a stipend would require an increase of that fee.

    My case would include the following:
    -Funerals are not routine at all (we have perhaps 10 or less each year), and there is just as much extra work involved with a funeral at our medium-size parish as a wedding.
    -The stipend to our cantors is certainly deserved, but it is entirely disproportionate if I receive nothing.

    What other items should I include in my proposal? Is it common in your experience for salaried Directors of Music to receive no additional stipends for the funeral work? Any insight you could give you be appreciated. Thanks!
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I would ask how much more you are payed BECAUSE OF your availability for the funerals? You aren't receiving nothing, it's part of your salary. If you're unhappy with the arrangement, perhaps the more appropriate route would be an increase to your salary?

    (EDIT) A thought: it would make more sense for the parish to allow you to simply charge per event, since then the FAMILY, and not the parish, would be paying you. It makes no sense to use parish funds to pay for you to play for funerals. You might use this argument.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    Does the church receive a stipend for the funeral? What about the priest? If the church and/or priest and cantor all receive stipends, so should you. I think you should receive one anyway. Consider all that a funeral entails, an extra $100 is really nothing, but a lot to you. Here the stipend is about $100, which over the course of 10 funerals buys a lot of organ music. What if there were a wedding on a weekday afternoon, would you be expected to play for free? This also takes time away from your daily duties as a DM.
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 798
    In our parish, the stipulation is that the DOM gets paid for both weddings and funerals. In fact, the job description includes a stipulation specifically stating that the DOM be paid a just wage.

    Here is the job posting reference:

    The Director of Liturgical Music will be recommended by the parish to those who would like music at Weddings and Funerals and may charge a just fee.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,307
    I get an additional stipend for both weddings and funerals. It comes in the form of an extra check from the church, but is covered by the fee that the family pays. The church is not out any extra money due to my funeral stipend.

    I have done funerals in 3 dioceses, for several different denominations, and I have never been asked to play a funeral for free.
  • Where exactly are you guys located, that your only getting $40, and $100 respectively? Down in the South, we get $150 organist, $150 cantor. I have even gotten $250 from some churches. I am curious as to where this backwards pay is coming from. I can understand in smaller, sub-urban, or rural areas perhaps, but in larger, and metro areas, we need to stop allowing the abuse of our skills to continue. Just a thought.
  • Michael: 1000-family parish in northern Indiana.
  • Wow, I am surprised and perplexed as to why the pay is so low. As I am not familiar with your skillset and experience level, I would venture to say your definitely getting shortchanged, unless your getting paid some kind of insane salary, i.e. Diane Bish, kind of salary.

    Being that your on this forum, you definitely don't strike me as an Aunt Bea/Uncle Bob, bar and chord, kind of musician, whom that pay would probably more than sufficient.

    I really wish you the best, with lots of prayers, in trying to get them to renegotiate your pay/stipend! I would be absolutely frustrated with anything less than $150.00 minimum.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    I haven't played a funeral in about a year, but it was $100 for the organist and $80 for the cantor in Ontario.
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    My opinion is- you took the job knowing how much the pay was, and hopefully knowing approximately how much total work would be involved (including funerals.) We don't know your salary, nor your work load, to make any determination about whether you are getting paid enough to have funerals included. I think that if you had a problem with the policy you should have made that clear prior to accepting the position. At this point, you are now basically asking for a pay raise, and I don't think you have much bargaining power.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • Thank you all for your input.. exactly what I was looking for,
  • Given the upsurge in recent years concerning the federal government's level of interest in the fiscal policies of ecclesial institutions-
    It might be in a parish's best interest to divorce itself from any fiscal compliance in a formal compact between music provider and the bereaved consumer. In other words, if the family initiates its contract through the agency of the funeral chapel, the chapel can formalize the revenue aspect for taxation purposes with the musician (independent contractor.) An exception could be made for occasions (I had two just this week alone) where my services were donated to the family gratis because of particular circumstances, specifically eliminating presumption of any honorarium or stipend to be gifted later on. This articulated protocol between musician and chapel seems to cover the legal bases very well for all concerned. However, the church's interest in the liturgical propriety and competency of the musician, presumably a directly affiliated person (such as the salaried or contracted parish organist) must be applied, regardless of the fiscal arrangements.
    Weddings/Quinceneras/Anniversaries- I tend to think that as the "players" involved in planning these celebrations aren't so clearly articulated, there is more latitude. So, though the church administration is ground zero for all "booking" negotiations, the only thing the church should mandate is a signed agreement between the client and a church-approved musician that services will be rendered. After that, whether monies exchanged are viewed as revenue, compensation, honorarium, stipend or gift is a matter between the client and the provider.
    I agree that a church insisting that a parish salaried musician's duties INCLUDE these arbitrary dates is not just; and even more unjust is the $40 tip.
    Depending upon experience and other factors, $50 plus for rehearsals, $100 plus for event is minimum anywhere in this economy, IMHO.
  • I agree with Marajoy......and I also think that DOM's should NOT be paid for funerals and/or weddings unless they have to also be the organist and sing. I am a DOM down south (Florida) and usually play and sing all the weddings and funerals (unless the family requests somebody special). I accept stipends based on what I have to do if I am a "one man band".....if not, I do not accept stipends if I have an organist and cantor.


























  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,307
    Musicteacher56, I don't think anyone is suggesting that the Director of Music should be paid a stipend if others are playing the organ and/or singing for the funeral. Though some parishes operate this way (basically paying off the Director of Music so the musician of the family's choice can play for the funeral), it is not common.

    The organist and cantor who actually provide the music for the funeral SHOULD be paid, whether they are the same person or two separate people. That said, the fact that the OP accepted the job with the understanding that funerals would be unpaid puts him or her in a difficult position now.

    From the Archdiocese of Indianapolis:

    the commission highly recommends:
    --that funeral accompanists be paid from $50 to $100, depending on their level of skill and experience and other circumstances

    I get more than that per funeral, but I'm not in the Archdiocese of Indianapolis, so YMMV.

    Source: http://www.archindy.org/worship/files/Funeral survey.pdf
  • While I certainly agree that our skill sets, and the education it took to obtain these skills, is worth the money, we are still ministers, and should look at the stipend/salary in that context. If we agree to a contract that does not stipulate stipends for special services, then we should not expect to be paid for these services. I think the solution is to make sure each musician/DOM be happy with his/her contract before ever signing it.
    Thanked by 1marajoy
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,307
    I agree that is tough to argue for more money after the contract has been signed--you're definitely right there, Musicteacher56. Though I find the comparison to ministers a little misleading since, at least in the Archdiocese in which I am employed, the priest who celebrates the funeral Mass DOES receive a funeral stipend of $100.
  • This is only my opinion,and not meant to be a basis for argument. In this regard, I also feel that the priest should not receive a stipend for his celebration of the funeral mass. But, again, it's only my opinion. God bless.
  • They shouldn't but, its actually mandated in Canon law, that they receive a stipend. I was surprised to learn of this a few weeks ago.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    But in this case, the organist isn't "not getting paid". Btdorovich IS paid - the issue is whether it ought to be salaried or not.

    I think, for many of the reasons Charles listed, that funeral services should NOT be included in the salary. I've never had a family complain about writing me a separate check. But, if they are included in the salary, the salary should accurately reflect the workload.
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    As a point of reference, until two years ago I played organ/directed choir/chanted psalms/consulted with family/made choir programs for funerals as music director for a 1000 family Catholic parish in northern Indiana and received 100 per, approx. 60 a year.
    The parish did NOT charge parishioners any fees, stipends, etc, so my fee did come directly out of the parish's pocket.
    Other neighboring parishes, where I subbed, and was paid by either the parish or the funeral home were usually in the 65 to 75 range.
    Families sometimes gave a separate honorarium, (which I would put in the choir fund.)
    There was a small kerfuffle about a bench fee once.

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • I stand corrected. Sorry, didn't know about Canon Law on this one. Still......it's not different, imho, than the priest going out in the middle of the night to the hospital to sit with the sick and comfort families. But, again, it's just my opinion. I work for a small parish. If it were larger, I may feel a lot differently. God bless to all of us.
  • I didn't know about this either, until about a month or two ago, when my finance director told me that they are required by canon law to receive a stipend for every mass, and confessions, etc.... Though I believe the requirement didn't stipulate how much. I think at bare minimum is was supposed to be $10.00 lol, but I am not a canon lawyer so I have no idea, but I do know they are supposed to receive stipends for a lot of things. You would be surprised at what they get paid for.

    God Bless!
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,183
    MichaelM, I wonder what the finance director in your parish might be thinking of: maybe some local practice?

    The faithful have the right to receive the sacraments, as long as they are eligible and properly prepared (canon 843); so a stipend cannot be required for the conferral of a sacrament.

    On the other hand: if someone requests that a Mass be offered for a particular intention, that is separate from a request to *receive* a sacrament, so perhaps a diocese may require that a stipend be given for that. (Canon 945 says that a priest "may" receive a stipend for offering a Mass.)

    Also, marriage can be celebrated in the parish office with only the witnesses present, so a pastor might be able to refuse the use of the church building to a couple who does not or cannot make the customary offering.
  • @chonak, I spoke with three priests, the pastor included today, about this, and yes, there are citations in the Code of Canon law regarding stipends. They are not mandatory for those that can't afford, or are in financial distress. It stipulates that the congregation should be properly catechized into understanding the value of supporting the priests. I am awaiting the documents from one of the associates, who will bring me the citation, but while it may not be mandatory in the sense of give, or you won't get. It is expected, and is a part of canon law.

    I had no idea about this myself, until my finance director brought it to my attention, but yes, perhaps more on a diocesan level, they are paid for all masses, funerals, weddings, confesssions, etc... et...

    And honestly, why shouldn't they be paid something, they to have expenses allbeit, perhaps not as large as we may, but when you look at the big picture of what they have to give up to be a priest, I don't think it's asking that much to be giving a small compensation and appreciation. Not to mention, diocesan priests do typically get pensions, but a lot of order and religious, rely on outside support, and would not otherwise have the luxury of this. This is certainly the case with the nuns. I know some of the sisters that worked at a parish near by, that only got $100-400 a month. That was it. They rely on the support of the faithful.

    Thanked by 1chonak