Music for the Carmelite Rite
  • sacristyrat
    Posts: 13
    Hi, My pastor is a member of the Order of Carmelites and he is planning to use the Extraordinary Form of his order's missal for the celebration of missa cantatas. We have the altar missal and rubrics. Can some one here help us with obtaining the texts for the choir? Thank you!
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    There was published a book of Mass propers for Carmelite feasts with Gregorian melodies. The presumption is that if it is a feast proper to the Carmelites, you would use this book; if not, you would use the Roman Gradual. I have this little book, and if you would tell me what feast you are celebrating, I could send you a pdf of the chants for that feast. Send me an e-mail at mahrt@stanford.edu.
    Thanked by 1E_A_Fulhorst
  • Jeffrey MorseJeffrey Morse
    Posts: 202
    It could be that the priest is a "calced" Carmelite (O. Carm) and not Discalced (OCD), in which case he may be celebrating the Mass according to the Rite of the Holy Sepulcher, also sometimes called the "Carmelite Rite". In that case the Mass chants are found in the ANTIPHONALE MISSARUM. The Discalced gave up the rite after the death of St Teresa and much to the consternation of St John of the Cross, and adopted the Roman Rite. The O. Carm. fathers kept the rite until 1970. There are some major differences in the music between the two "rites", especiall at this time of year when the ASPERGES is replaced with SANCTE DEUS on Sundays. I have a copy of the ANTIPHONALE MISSARUM if it turns out that it IS a celebration of the Carmelite Rite/Rite of the Holy Sepulcher and would be happy to make copies for you.
  • sacristyrat
    Posts: 13
    As a point of clarification. The priest is OCarm NOT OCD. So I need help obtaining propers for the Carmelite Rite. Not the form of the Roman Mass used by the OCD.
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    We're supposed to be getting an OCarm, but I have no idea if he'd like to celebrate the "Carmelite Rite" or not. I'd be very interested in the Antiphonale Missarum to peruse and perhaps read through with my schola prior to his arrival.
  • sacristyrat
    Posts: 13
    Yes, this Antiphonale may be a problem. Although the missale carmelitarum uses Sundays after Trinity, do the Sundays in the missale romanum have the same propers?
  • Jeffrey MorseJeffrey Morse
    Posts: 202
    Generally the Sundays after Trinity in the Rite of the Holy Sepulcher match up with those Sundays after Pentecost in the Roman Rite. Where one must take care and do one's homework is some of the bigger feasts proper to the Carmelites like the Feast of O.L. of Mt Carmel which has a sequence and completely different propers than those found in the Roman Rite/OCD Propers. Also, as I mentioned above, the Asperges is not sung in Lent for the Sprinkling Rite, but is replaced by something completely unique to the Carmelites, the SANCTE DEUS.

    The ANTIPHONALE MISSARUM contains all the music of the Mass, and is, what we would call it in the Roman Rite, a Graduale. Its full title is "Antiphonale Missarum Ordinis Fratrum Beatissimae Virginis Mariae de Monte Carmelo, Juxta Jerosolymitanae Ecclesiae Antiquam Consuetudinem
  • sacristyrat
    Posts: 13
    Thanks Jeffrey! It is my hope that these treasures will be scanned on line so they may take on a "new life" as we are planning to do in NY. www.the-latinmass.com
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    SacristyRat,

    The priest may not be OCD, but I know I am. :P

    [/bad joke]
    Thanked by 2Gavin CharlesW
  • sacristyrat
    Posts: 13
    Mr.Morse has agreed to help with copying some of the propers I need for OCarm masses.
    I'd certianly be happy to scan them and make them available here for the many. We can work together on this. So far as I can tell this book is really rare and we don't want it to be a stumbling block for the celebration of the Carmelite rite.
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    Many thanks!!!
  • sacristyrat
    Posts: 13
    To all my latin experts out here. I am making a booklet for this mass to assist the people in following it. I need help with the prayer after the salve regina. Translating it comes out to litteral for me to make it flow right. Any one want to help?

    Protégé, Domine, famulos tuos subsidiis pacis: et beatae Mariae semper Virginis patrociniis confidentes, a cunctis hostibus redde secures. Per Christum Dominum nostrum.
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    "Protect your servants, O Lord, by the assistance of peace: and keep those who trust in the protection of Blessed Mary Ever-Virgin safe from all enemies. Through Christ our Lord."

    Subsidiis pacis is a little hard to translate in a simple way, since the Latin contains a deliberate tension: subsidium literally refers to "reserve troops," so this martial image is being juxtaposed with pax. A bolder translator might prefer to use a phrase here like "by marshaling the forces of peace" or "by sending your soldiers of peace."

    EDIT: There's also a translation of the prayer in this book here.
  • sacristyrat
    Posts: 13
    Thank you... yes. "army of peace" was throwing me off.
  • sacristyrat
    Posts: 13
    Thanks to Jeff Morse, I recieved some of the propers for major feasts of the Order of Carmelites. I scanned them into my computer; so if anyone is interested give me an email. jagnew78 at gee mail.
  • sacristyrat
    Posts: 13
    Anyone have the Offertory & Communion chants for the Carmelite Rite Feast of the Assumption they could scan for me?
  • Ben Bruggink
    Posts: 5
    There is a Latin-Dutch Missal (1949) for the Carmelite Rite. It's called "Het Misboek volgens de Ritus der Carmelieten". Turnhout, Etablissementen Brepols (Belgium), 1949 16 cm, bounded,1471+340 pp . It's for the rite of the O. Carm. You can buy a second hand copy for € 20,00 in the Netherlands by http://www.refter.nl. I think it's given a lot of answers....
    Thanked by 1expeditus1
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