Thank you! Does anyone have the English translation of this part of the missal? I'd be very interested to know exactly how it translates "Actus paenitentialis." (Does it imply the *entire* penitential rite? Or just the confiteor or just the kyrie?)

Marajoy: My understanding is that the term "Penitential Act" embraces what we know as forms A, B, and C (the Confiteor, those versicle/responses that nobody uses, and the troped Kyrie "You were sent to heal the contrite ..."), but not the Kyrie proper. The rubric preceding the Kyrie provides, "The Kyrie, eleison (Lord, have mercy) invocations follow, unless they have just occurred in a formula of the Penitential Act." That implies, I think clearly, that the Missal does not consider the Kyrie itself to be a part of the Penitential Act.

Incidentally (I'm remembering what ClemensRomanus pointed out in this thread), the GIRM also separates these elements:

The Penitential Act

51. After this, the Priest calls upon the whole community to take part in the Penitential Act, which, after a brief pause for silence, it does by means of a formula of general confession. The rite concludes with the Priest’s absolution, which, however, lacks the efficacy of the Sacrament of Penance.

From time to time on Sundays, especially in Easter Time, instead of the customary Penitential Act, the blessing and sprinkling of water may take place as a reminder of Baptism.[55]

The Kyrie, Eleison

52. After the Penitential Act, the Kyrie, eleison (Lord, have mercy), is always begun, unless it has already been part of the Penitential Act. Since it is a chant by which the faithful acclaim the Lord and implore his mercy, it is usually executed by everyone, that is to say, with the people and the choir or cantor taking part in it.

Each acclamation is usually pronounced twice, though it is not to be excluded that it be repeated several times, by reason of the character of the various languages, as well as of the artistry of the music or of other circumstances. When the Kyrie is sung as a part of the Penitential Act, a “trope” precedes each acclamation.

Then again, on the other hand, in Appendix II, which treats of the Sprinkling Rite, the final rubric says, "Then, when it is prescribed, the hymn Gloria in excelsis (Glory to God in the highest) is sung or said" -- which would seem to imply the omission of the Kyrie.

Oh well, what do I know. Maybe I remembered there being greater clarity on this question than there actually is.

This is a wonderful question. I have not thought of the Penitential Act as separate from the Kyrie, but there it is. It is under a different heading.


Parishes do use Penitential Act B. As a matter of fact several parishes in our area use only Pent. Act B until Lent so folks will not use old translations.

I still hear some folks using the old translations still. I am almost certain that for many it is an ingrained response that will take years to correct. However, when they are sung people respond well and with one voice. How Vatican Council II! (Of course this takes several weeks or months of practice, but it works!)

Our parish has used Pent. Act B - always chanted, even at weekday masses and the people respond brilliantly. This is always followed by a sung Kyrie. In Lent we are using the said Confiteor with an expanded sung Kyrie. In the season of Easter we will use a Sprinkling Rite and then back to Pent. Act B with a sung Kyrie for Ordinary or we will use the sung Kyrie with chanted troupes.

As for a wedding we do not sing the Gloria except when asked for it (outside of the Penitential seasons.

The Gloria is specifically uncalled for during penitential seasons, according to the reading of the rubrics for Nuptial Masses in the new Roman Missal, right?

You are quite right, my apologies.

CHGiffen,

No need to apologize! The prescription of the Gloria in the Nuptial Mass is unchartered waters for many of us.

I'm curious from a practical standpoint how people are incorporating the Gloria into the nuptial Mass. Namely:

When the wedding party processes in, do they go directly to their seat or do they all line up across the front for a photo op. while the presider ad libs a lengthy greeting?

Regardless of the above, do you begin the Gloria immediately following the sign of the cross and the official greeting ("the Lord be with you...") or does your priest somehow "introduce" the Gloria? At this point I'm assuming to omit the Kyrie since we rarely sing it anyways and I'm having a difficult time convincing the pastor not to omit the Gloria. Still, even if one were to include the Kyrie should it start out of the blue since the actual penitential act is omitted?

One solution, I've considered would be to have the wedding party come in, pose for the photo, have the priest ad lib his non liturgical greeting, and then chant the introit while everyone moves to their seat, the intoit would then be followed by the sign of the cross, greeting, (Kyrie) and Gloria all in succession before the collect.

The problem I'm having is that they insist on having the wedding party stand across the front of the nave, do the colloquial greeting and then, out of habit, go directly into the collect, thereby skipping over the now required Gloria, before having everyone move to their seat for the readings, so it is awkward.

What do you do?

What we do, as local custom:

Bridal Procession
Polish blessing of couple with Icon of the Mother of God
Introit, (Greeting, if the priest forgets to omit it, which is most of the time), Kyrie, Gloria, &c. as in Missal/Gradual

The photographers are warned beforehand that they are to be discreet; and that if at any point they even do so much as THINK about crossing the altar-rail into the sanctuary, they will be bodily ejected from the church by some of our 6' tall altar 'boys'.