a new hymnal... progress?
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    Our pastor mentioned to me this morning that we're abandoning the yearly "Breaking Bread" OCP missalettes in favor of a hardcover hymnal. He didn't recall the title, but he said it's published by Franciscan University Press… which leads me to believe it's this green-covered "Canticle" hymnal. I have yet to see it.

    The blurb on that link describes it like this:
    Bring the music of Franciscan University to your parish! This hard cover hymnal is used daily in our campus chapel. The hymnal includes a comprehensive selection of music styles: traditional hymnody, Gregorian chant, contemporary, and praise & worship.
    • Over 400 songs
    • Topical arrangement
    • Extensive indexes: topical, alphabetical, and first line
    • Over 50 psalms
    • Mass settings and additional parts

    So, the Parish Book of Chant it's not… but does anyone here have any experience with this hymnal? Does this represent even a little progress beyond OCP?
  • Mark P.
    Posts: 248
    "contemporary, and praise & worship"
    "Over 400 songs"

    Danger, danger Will Robinson!
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    Well, there's a reason I wasn't included on the discussions regarding this…!
  • No. It does not.

    noel at sjnmusic.com

    [well, you asked...the accompaniment book brags about guitar chords...]
  • Cantor
    Posts: 84
    “Steubenville” and “good liturgy” don’t tend to be correlated in erudite conversation about liturgy, in my experience.
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,204
    There's an odd dichotomy that I've never really been able to understand, and Steubenville is an example, as is Tom Monahan's Corpus Christi parish on the Domino Farms campus in Ann Arbor. The dichotomy is that there seems to be an odd connection between orthodoxy in matters of faith and doctrine with these groups and a favoring of music from the charismatic renewal movement. "Word of God" is a publishing arm of the lay religious community "Servants of the Word" which had its beginnings in Ann Arbor. They are extremely orthodox, yet favor their own flavor of "folk music" from the late '60's and early '70's.

    I don't know if anyone else has experienced this rather odd disconnect, but it's not uncommon in the charismatic renewal movement as well.

    How is it that orthodoxy in faith and morals is important but orthopraxis in liturgy and music isn't?
  • francis
    Posts: 10,667

    I am very familiar with what you are speaking about. However, there is another element that enters into the mix--ecumenism--and that element effects BOTH realms of orthodoxy and liturgy. And an even greater problem is that most don't understand the difference between true and false ecumenism. I always met resistance or indifference about things Roman Catholic when I was interfacing with charismatic (and especially ecumenical) Catholics that tended toward informality, folk or praise music, etc.

    I could be completely wrong, but my understanding is that Steubenville has only discovered its Catholic identity and heritage more and more as time passes. But then that has been true of the entire charismatic movement. There was definitely some good that came from the movement, but that is what it was... a movement, and in itself is not the church. Time is a great test of things spiritual. It is a significant way the Church tests the validity of revelation, movements of the Spirit, testing of spirits, etc.
  • I have a copy of CANTICLE given to me by a former student. I have given it only the lightest perusal, only because of time constraints before vacation. However, I did email and call FSU in an effort to obtain the accompanimental version. That cannot be done without purchasing 30 copies minimum of the pew edition. Secondly, the only accompanimental edition consists of lead line with chordal assignments. There's a lot of "Danger, Will Robinson" in that fact alone. No mention of plans for a realized keyboard edition were mentioned by Bookstore staff at FSU.
    The typesetting of the pew edition is fine.
    In my quick perusal it reminds me of a reverse mirror image of ADOREMUS hymnal: light on content, didactic to editorial choices that favor certain styles clearly over others and inadequate for whole-parish use.
    I've coached the former FSU student (who's currently discerning a vocation with Mother Theresa's order of sisters) and her younger sister on both vocal and guitar accompanmental skills development. So, before receiving CANTICLE, they would bring the "lead sheet" versions by the FSU "resident" composers such as Matt Maher. Often I would find a few common denominators in such repertoire- highly syncopated melodies that tend toward motion in skip/interval versus stepwise motion; very odd chordal assignments by the composers themselves that seem idiomatic and in a lot of cases just plain inexplicable, not only according to "traditional" harmonic theory rubrics, but that they would still hover over a quickly moving melodic phrase after any faux "tension/release" of an appoggiatura or prepared suspension, etc. Weird. I would remark to my student that most of her examples had so many illogical issues, that without consulting the composer directly or possessing a realized accompaniment, I'd simply opt to ignore many of the weird assignments and use a harmonic assignment or structure that would help, not hinder the congregations' ease of acquiring and singing the song. However, FSU performance practice at rehearsals, singing sessions and liturgies seems to be dependent upon rote acquisition and memorizing of these stylistic tendencies.
    Is this what your pastor really wants for a standard parish worship AIDE?
    I would wait for GIA RITUALSONGS second edition, myself.
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    Thanks, Charles, for the thoughtful comments. I'm even more curious now. Our pastor said that there were numerous Mass settings in it, so I'm hoping there might be at least one or two that'll work for the Masses where I lead the music. And the blurb says that there is some chant, so again, I'm curious how much. So far, I'm getting the sense that this is a "sideways" move, at best, from OCP.

    AND… if I heard them correctly, the folks at Aquinas & More mentioned that the Franciscan University Press is going out of business. (Or, at the least, that "Canticle" was going out-of-print.) If this is true, it makes our parish's choice of this hymnal even more… well, perplexing. The move isn't planned 'til Advent, so maybe there's time here. We'll see.
  • Mark,
    I'm back from my vacation, so I'll get to the office Tuesday and provide a closer, much more thorough review. CANTICLE seems to be a parochial hymnal for FSU; sort of like the ones we all compiled for our parishes in the 70's and 80's, some better done than others. I don't think OCP was editorially involved in the project because a great number of FSU composers, RC and Prots alike, aren't in their copyright stables.
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    It was indeed "Canticle" that was chosen (though not purchased, yet). I've been looking at a perusal copy of the hymnal here.

    Overall, it may not be very edifying to the parish as a whole (compared to OCP), but for the Masses where I lead the music, it's not really any worse. It has the same "Chant Mass" setting (Jubilate Deo), plus about a dozen other accompanied settings (the usual suspects).

    As for the rest of the content, it has enough straight-ahead, respectable vernacular hymns to keep my four-hymn sandwich going, for the time being, as I work towards an ideal. Of course, there's plenty of "silly songs" too, but I (for one) can ignore them. In terms of chant, it has most of the ones that OCP has -- some missing (e.g., Ave Maria, Jesu Dulcis Memoria), but it has some others, too (like Ave Maris Stella). (I sort of use Jeffrey and Arlene's article about the twelve chants "that every Catholic should know" as a guide. To its credit, OCP had all of them -- but no more.)

    My biggest concern is that there doesn't seem to be a companion organ/piano/keyboard/whatever accompaniment book — as you mentioned, Charles, and as Noel pointed out, too. I'm not sure if our music director realizes that. I'll call the publisher tomorrow, too, and check to be sure. This would seem to me to be a deal-breaker — I certainly don't want our organist to have to realize chords from lead sheets (though she could).

    I'll appreciate your further thoughts, Charles. (It seems like just you and I and a few others will be around here this week!) Is there anything particularly appealing about the forthcoming RitualSong edition?

    P.S. — I'm told they had also considered the Adoremus Hymnal, but that didn't sit well with everyone. Hm.
  • OCP would do itself a big favor simply by incorporating its LAUS TIBI pamphlet contents into the next MI/BB 09. That could easily be accomplished by dumping most of Carey Landry's stuff, which was reinserted fairly recently (5 years ago or so?) and much of its, ahem, Psalter.
    If you're listening Bari, Randy, Tom and Cathedral Lady, please give editorial credit for this idea where credit is due.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,667
    I will be around too, Mark. We will have to have our own virtual Colloquium right here on the boards. Mark: Have you suggested a paper insert instead of a hymnal? I am getting ready to take a post and will be attempting that model. It allows you the flexibility to include resources from a vast array of places.
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    I'd like to see that "Laus Tibi" pamphlet sometime.

    And good to see you here, francis. I've been working towards a paper insert, actually, using freely-available material here and from ceciliaschola. (Ah, the internet!) I'm inclined to call it our "Kyriale," though I don't know if that name has more formal associations. (And how do you pronounce that, BTW? Four syllables, with the final 'e' vocalized, or just three, with the accent on the final "al"?)

    Given the impending Vox Clara, I'm wondering if the best choice would be to simply go for another year of OCP.
  • Kee-ree (dee, if you flip the "r", which I believe is correct diction)-ah-leh.
    EmPHAsis on the KEE and the AH: KEE-dee-AH-leh. Go light on the "dee."
    J. Michael Thompson also has a lovely Kyriale published way back in 99 worth a look.
    I sure as heck wouldn't switch from OCP MI/BB for 09 to CANTICLE, Mark. Once you're hardbound, you're locked in for a generation. Argghh.
    Assuming that there is no huge paradigm shift in practice for the next 10 years or so in the states, I still would opt for RITUALSONGS II for hardbound. It covers the waterfronts with a respectable balance. But who knows, maybe OCP's got something up their sleeves for 09 in MI/BB. Has anyone seen the 09 editions yet?
    But unless you're on the LIFETEEN track, nix on CANTICLE.
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    Thanks, Charles. (You're a veritable Colloquium in and of yourself!) I'll sound the "danger" signs to the powers that be at my parish, and post an update.
  • mjballoumjballou
    Posts: 993
    My problem with Laus Tibi was the lack of translations. Now maybe this problem was remedied. When I got my copy shortly after it was published, I pitched a fit on the phone, wrote OCP an outraged letter, sent the book back and GOT A REFUND.

    I didn't want translations for singing, but I certainly didn't want singers with no idea of the text. (And no, I didn't want to do OCP's job for them.)

    The remark about hardbound hymnals is correct. You won't talk the pastor into anything new for quite some time.
  • We have been doing paper inserts for one month, and they seem to be going well. I am still working on perfecting size, etc, but all in all the congregation loves the user-friendly model. (Even if it is the 4 hymn sandwhich....) BTW: In the past, this parish ordered OCP 'Music Issue' every other year. OCP does not like this, but prefers any business to no business. We are testing the programs as we are up for new 'Music Issues' soon. Say some prayers!
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    Good for you, Mary Jane! Way to "fight the power."
  • Mark M ;-) Thanks, but I'm just a simple, aging choral director....oops, that was my MacArthur speech....nevermind.
    I can't believe you're quoting NWA/Spike Lee in this forum. Surreal!
    MJB, true that about the translations. But in a way, such omissions provide the director with the opportunity to illuminate his/her singers by different approaches to making the cognitive connections to the meaning of the Latin texts. The Ron Jeffers text is mandatory for all directors' libraries as it succinctly provides history, liturgical usage, literal and poetic translations as well as Gregorian/Roman diction guides.
    My point was simply that OCP would surely get beaucoup brownie points if they incorporated LAUS TIBI (w/translations) into MI/BB as they did with those English "hits" that now have Spanish translations correctly set (OEW/Here I Am, Lord) a few years back.
    And stop calling me "Shirley"

    Bada boom.
  • PS- As we were working towards paper programs vs. hymnals, I almost got stuck with a committee to help choose a hymnal. See if you can just TRY paper programs to see how they go. Might stall the process......To second and third everyone here, once you got the hardbound, it's hard to get rid of 'em.
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    I can't believe you're quoting NWA/Spike Lee in this forum. Surreal!

    Honestly, I thought it was somewhat common lingo, and I didn't know that was the origin of the phrase! I'm a little behind on my knowledge of popular culture, it seems.
  • Nope, not really. Even growing up in Oakland in the 60's/70's with the Panthers, Cleaver, Newton et al, "Fight the power" I can't recall as being its own anthemic catch phrase. "Power to the people" yes. FTP would have been incendiary and over the top back then, tho' the sentiment was clearly present. "FTP" is also a double entrendre, which also became its own rap undergound hit.
    It was only, as a public school music teacher having to come to terms with the emergent form of pop called "rap," and specifically the earlier, regionalized, politcally edgy LA amalgam group NWA (you either know what that means or you don't, I ain't gonna reveal it) which became more in vogue than their predecessors, RunDMC, did I first hear the single "Fight the Power." Then, in Lee's amazing film "Do the Right Thing" the phrase was tagged on a Bronx, brick wall while the soundtrack hammered the rap.
    That's why the correspondance of that phrase as regards reinstituting chant despite modern clerical resistance in the Holy Roman Catholic Church struck me as particularly bizarre, yet appropriate.
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    Thanks for the schooling there. :)
    you either know what that means or you don't…

    I know what it means (and I ain't gonna reveal it, either!). I was a public school music teacher, too, for several years. That's quite a schooling itself.

    Somehow, I don't think they're talking about things like this in Chicago right now! Anyway, I didn't mean to be incendiary here… just trying to voice support for the cause. :)
  • Hey, Mark, I think we're having quite a bit of fun while our buds are having the time of their lives! Why not?
    I think it's a hoot we're talking NWA on the Musica Sacra forum while Jeffrey's running around doing errands and not breaking a sweat.
    Besides, not going to Chicago this year has saved my wife and I a fortune. We, uh, very much like spending time and treasure on the Miracle Mile!
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    Indeed! But I think Jeffrey and the gang are going to have to clean up the mess we've made around here, once they get back… ;)
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,156
    Some music books from FUS used to set classic hymn texts such as "At the Name of Jesus" to new tunes by their local composers such as Jim Cowan. Does 'Canticle' do that too, or have they stuck with familiar melodies?
  • Haven't got that far yet, chonak, sorry.