Yellow Rose,
I have almost the EXACT same situation at my parish!!! Not that I am wishing this on anybody else, but it was great to read this when I got into the office this morning - after a long rehearsal last night. I am looking forward to other responses!


Let us know what you try at the next rehearsal and what works!

Sigh... I hear you... Break it up, break it up. And know that once the new becomes the familiar, they will love that too... sigh...

Yellowrose - ugh! I don't envy you, but I'm about to walk into a similar situation and I've been contemplating how I'm going to nurture the good stuff, while gently prying the bad stuff from their grasps.

I have two suggestions: 1. is it possible to hold a short "class" -- totally separate from choir rehearsals - every week or every other week - where you just teach ear training and sight singing in small doses? I've found that often people don't "like" more complex and interesting music because they either can't manage the energy to master the long - ish rehearsals it requires or it intimidates them to the point where they just won't give it a chance. Don't know if that's possible or helpful.

2. and this is a little devious - but I'd pick the most vocal "hater" of this music and pull them aside after rehearsal and (forgive me, Lord) tell them that their voice is particularly suited to this genre - and you'd like to spend 10 minutes or so just with them before or after rehearsal to tweak their skills so that they can be more comfortable with this music.
Then depending on how desperate you are, I'd even go so far as giving them a simple line of chant (that they can handle) to solo out at some discreet moment in the liturgy.
See how that goes, and if it's successful, repeat with the next dissenter.
But pick something obviously beautiful - that everyone would like to sing - and bestow it as a gift to this person. (maybe they could cantor a beautiful psalm refrain at communion - when there is a lot of getting up and rustling around so that they would feel a bit 'covered' by the noise.)

I've used this "technique" with great success in middle schools where several kids where spoiling class after class. (One boy - who all the teachers dreaded working with due to uncontrollable bad behavior - actually had great talent for acting as well as a decent voice - and this served as an introduction to the "arts" for him and literally turned his behavior around 180 degrees.)

If you can "re-program" the mindset and get just one of them to open up to something truly beautiful and transformational - you're 'in'. The beauty and order of the music will - hopefully - do the heavy lifting of conversion, if the heart can be softened....unless there is true 'invincible ignorance" at work.

Note: all voices are actually "somewhat suited" to singing chant - so it's not a falsehood to say that as encouragement.

Do you open the rehearsals with a prayer? You probably do, but that's probably the best advice, actually.

I'd plunge right in and have everyone pray to the Holy Spirit to open their minds and hearts to give themselves over to the service of the liturgy and "overcome whatever is keeping us from giving ourselves to one another tonight at rehearsal."

AND - you will probably need to start a novena and offer your suffering in this situation up to God in prayer. Lastly, I'd email all my friends/family/fellow musicians and ask them to pray for your choir members and the success of your choir.

What you need here, is conversion.

That's my best shot. Best of luck.
(p.s. I'll pray for you.)

I agree with several points of advice above:
-shake up rehearsal bits
-engage the dissenter(s) with extra kindness and out of reh attention
-pray with the choir
-offer your own sufferings, etc., for conversion in your choir

two things I'd add
1) mix in chant hymns- a lot of people fall in love with chant and overcome barriers with 'Adoro te devote', 'Ave verum corpus', 'Ave Maria', etc. They're easy to learn, and things that bind Catholics in devotion everywhere.
2) ask the pastor to become more involved as his schedule permits. The choir needs to see and hear his leadership to fully trust that this change in rep isn't about you as choir director. The pastor can pop into rehearsals, sing along with chant he knows. Another really great thing would be a Lenten talk to encourage the choir. It could be about their role in the sacred liturgy or somesuch that would serve to help form them in their purpose as a choir.

Suze said it best- this is about conversion. Pray, get creative about leading, and enlist your pastor.

Here's my advice as a long time chorister and a some time DM.
1. Don't dwell on hard pieces for more than 15 minutes MAX, for simple, well-known hymns, 5 minutes MAX.
2. Provide all possible methods of help outside of rehearsals. This means make CDs or online mp3s of their choral parts available to them. Be willing to meet with them individually for a limited, but dedicated time to practice. Help them organize their folder. Show them how to mark their music. If they can't read, then hilight their part and show them at least how to follow the contour of their line. Give them voice lessons or recommend someone for them to go to. This shows you care. It might win you some support.
3. Avoid spoonfeeding the notes through the piano. It would be better if you actually sang their part. This shows you think they are capable of achieving more.
4. I think it is extremely important (though admittedly overlooked in some professional settings) to discuss the meaning and some history of the work you are performing. This works for me. I enjoy storytelling, and I can do it decently if I know what I'm talking about. Don't try to mesmerize, but for 5 minutes out of every other rehearsal tell a cute story about Haydn or Mozart, the special status of Palestrina in the history of chant revision, the biblical origin of prayers like the Gloria, etc. If they start to ask questions, ANSWER THEM. Also, it helps immensely if the music you practice has words worth analyzing and composers worth talking about. ;D This shows you have an interest in the ministry side, not just showing off musical skill.
5. Treat your choir members they way they should be treated. If they are volunteers, don't treat them as if you're paying them. If they are children, don't expect them to know all the terms and conductor's gestures. If they are adults, do not talk to them like they are teenagers. If they are older than you, treat them with the respect befitting their age and experiences. You may not be acknowledged for treating them well, but you won't be accused of treating them poorly.
6. Let your pastor present and defend your case for you. He can do this in a choir rehearsal, as part of a homily, during a visit to RCIA, or even CCD. Don't bog him down with little details, but explaining the reason and need for good sacred music is his job, not just yours. If your pastor doesn't want to know about, doesn't care about, or is against sacred music, your efforts to reform the music program might be in vain.
7. Pray. A lot.

Thank you all for a lot of great suggestions. I've got some more ideas, and I'm also encouraged because I'm actually doing a number of these things already!

Fortunately, my pastor is extremely supportive, and also about half of my choir is rapidly falling in love with the music I'm giving them (a 17-year-old girl who's never encountered chant before says "YAY!" when we start learning the SEP Introit!), although that doesn't make them learn it any faster than the ones who hate it!

And on Wed. I gave them all practice CD's of the Vidi Aquam and the Sicut Cervus. They were really excited about it, and hopefully that'll help! :)

"NEVER become discouraged."
A quote from St. Therese of Liseux. (Capitalization is mine.)

Remember that every little pebble that we drop in the pond will create waves that will travel a great distance both in space and time.

Deo gratias.

that is a fantastically hilarious idea, Hugh. I'm totally going to do it. Our church has a HORRIBLE dead acoustic and the room in which we practice is also pretty bad.

I also really like the "choral workshop" idea.

And yesterday I had another thought, on which I'd like feedback. What if I were to ask for volunteers to become a "schola" to do the chants? I could have anyone who was interested come 10-15 min earlier than practice now starts, and start practice 10-15 min later. That way those who like it could sing it, those who didn't wouldn't feel they were being forced into it, and we could focus more on motets (which tend to be more accessible to the modern ear) in the rest of practice. Any thoughts on this idea?

I can assure that singing in better acoustics helps a lot; sometimes our choir master takes us out of the practise room (the former chapter hall) to the cloister (our church is a former abbey church that was converted to a parochial church in 1803 following the secularization); the reverb is awesome and gives a totally new feeling. However its cold there, as it also is in the church (heated to 14°C=57°F, quite cold), so we return to the chapter hall rather quickly.

good one - Renoir in greyscale...how true. (But alas, Pope Hugh - please amend your encyclical to include wooden surfaces. I actually like a 'wood/marble/old plaster walls' mix best for acoustics.)

I concur with Hugh - standing in a circle is a lovely way to tighten the vibrations. It helps with blending and conforming vocal texture as well. And if you have some novice singers that are having a hard time mastering the art of "holding their part against another part" you can use separate circles by section. (This is how I got my 6-7-8 graders to sing in parts after only a few weeks...and it works equally well with the average adult parishioner...but you do need a little space.)

And, yes, a schola is always a nice addition - as long as you can stack the deck and make sure a few of your more sensitive members will be volunteering. Just be careful that you don't allow the dynamic of a "elite" group to develop in the choir. That will quickly lead to a lack of harmony in terms of inter-personal relationships. You'll have to have your antennae up to navigate potential pitfalls with that. Also, I'd be tempted to wait a bit and not jump to that idea right away. You might want to give the entire choir some time to "develop a taste" for chant. For many people it's an "acquired taste" and needs a little curing to settle in.

I always go with the "lasagna theory" of vocal music.
It's an obscure treatise that was handed down from my italian grandmother; "music is like lasagna, it's much better if it sits for a day or so."
Happy trails, Rose...

You're probably making more progress than you think, as well. Sounds to me like you are already in good shape with your process...but a little encouragement is really key. Feel free to email me if you need to rant.... :)

Last night I took the choir in the bathroom and had them sing through "Vidi Aquam." (that's the one they know best.) First of all, they sounded awesome - and they could tell. Second, it was just so zany and funny that I think it lightened up everyone's attitude considerably :)

Thanks for the offer, tomboysuze. I may take you up on that at some point!

Excellent! Love the bathroom idea. A mini-retreat from choir practice.
Humor, humor, humor....getting goofy at choir practice is such a nice respite for everyone, especially the director. Being a serious professional for two hours during rehearsal is rather boring. I like to be a silly professional for a bit - then everyone's vocal tension relaxes and they sing better. (funny story - a friend took a "big" DM job in another state at a v. German parish. He was perplexed when the whole choir got up during the homily and went into the filing room right off the choir loft. So, he told them not to do that anymore. A few weeks later, he picked up on some really bad vibes from his new choir during the homily and asked them why? The whole choir was mad at him because for years they would go into the filing room during the homily and do shots of whisky and they were ticked that now they had to sit through the whole mass without a buzz!) True story. You can use it at your next rehearsal for a laugh.

oh my gosh. wow. that's....really crazy...I'm really happy with my non-drunk non-breaking-Communion-fast choir now!

Although, the whiskey probably really helped relax their vocal cords....

I apologize for this bit of thread necromancy, topping up a long defunct thread. Since Sicut Cervus appears in the N.O. in four weeks as the communio, I thought I would ask. Yellow Rose, are you still here on this forum? If so, might I get a copy of your SAB version?

Secondly, one of us, we are three consistent singers, me the organist, my paid cantrice, and this other one. He works for Total Wine. There is not a rehearsal without him coming with two different wines, discussing the wines, THEN we sing, and drink. Anytime we accomplish something really noteworthy, he will bring sparkling for AFTER Mass.