Matters of Conscience- Being Forced to Have My H.S. Girls Sing Liturgically BAD Music - UPDATE
  • tomboysuzetomboysuze
    Posts: 289
    I've never posted here before, but I've been a member for a while and get a lot of advice from this forum. - mea culpa for the long post....My H.S. girls schola (one 8th grader) sing at a prominent venue in the city - a Monastery - once or twice a month - as volunteers. (I am reimbursed a teeny bit for my expenses.) They sing like angels w/ a clear, pure sound and a blend like honey. Last week they nailed their first piece of polyphony - Palestrina's "Sicut Cervus" scored for SSA. It was hard won. Hours were spent teaching them the skills to handle this piece. They worked hard, rioted, acted like horrible banshees, were rebuked and then worked hard again - with determination & good manners :) ! Last week, they faithfully served the liturgy, sang the propers, chanted the ordinaries, lead good hymns & sailed through & the Stainer "God So Loved the World" and the de Severac "Tantum Ergo". As a post communion, they soared with the Palestrina (from a "high altar - literally about 30 ft. up) executed with clarity, blend and confidence. People were moved, God seemed to smile and I was relieved.
    Fast forward to today and a meeting w/ the priest that will be saying mass on Palm Sunday. Not a bad guy. Likable. But he totally disregarded the hours of research, planning and rehearsal that we've already done to execute a sublime and careful liturgy for Palm Sunday. He never even looked at the beautiful program (nice fonts and art) that I stayed up all night doing. Then he picked all the music himself after brushing aside the necessity of the opening Antiphon. Two hymns in particular are horrid.( I'd be grateful to sing "Were You There." So grateful.)
    Anyway, when I related this to the choir tonight, some of the girls actually cried. One of them said, "But, they live in a Monastery. They're Holy. They can't want us to sing that." From the mouths of babes.... Granted...we "get" to chant the antiphon, sing "All Glory, Laud and HOnor" & I managed to shoehorn in a SSA version of the Lotti "Miserere".

    Should I grin and bear it and try to make something of: "The Holy City" and "Change Your Hearts" - neither of which I'd (thankfully) never heard of before today. Or should I suggest they have the 'cantor' do those, as I'm sure "we just can't do them justice." I've been through this enough times to see some sketches appearing on the wall, but who knows?
    Make an exception this time? or not? Either way it's already been a good lesson...but I feel like a traitor if I make them sing these "selections" on Palm Sunday. They have said they're too embarrassed to do this and they are UPSET! (they are SO sane! Deo Gratias.) Any thoughts? Thanks much.
    (p.s We are not a parish choir. They have been my students for years, through my vocal studio. SO this is a nice gig for them. But, coincidentally, I've just been offered a D.M. position in a local parish. wwjd? ;)
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    If you have an option to finesse the problem and get out of singing inferior music, why not take it? I'm assuming that the cantor at least gets paid for the indignity of singing that stuff.
    Thanked by 1tomboysuze
  • tomboysuzetomboysuze
    Posts: 289
    No, he doesn't get paid. He's a brother and is not all that pleasing to listen to. If do that, I will be opening a can of worms, as this particular liturgy is supposed to be my responsibility. This is the first time I've not been able to choose the music. I know that a few of the priests/brothers have complained about our proclivity toward latin and doing the propers. Last month I was "accused" of doing two offertory hymns when I did the proper for the offertory and then a hymn. Still think I should opt out? Thanks.
  • If your girls are embarassed to sing this drivel, be thankful (very thankful!) that they are, and don't ask them to embarass themselves nor to prostitute themselves musically. Nor should you even think of embarassing yourself. One grasps in vain for a fitting adjective for the 'priest' who so callously did not so much as take note of your careful and loving preparations: he obviously has no need of your or your girls' talents for what he has in mind. I am sure that everyone on this forum sends you understanding and encouragement to continue your exemplary work. Godspeed!

    And, you mention your conscience: we are not required to betray our consciences; doing so would be a sin.

    Thanked by 1tomboysuze
  • tomboysuzetomboysuze
    Posts: 289
    Many thanks. Such a relief to receive such strong confirmation of my own - and my students - natural inclinations. This was my hope and reason for posting.
    I'm not sure how I'm going to handle it, but God will provide. My heart is glad again. Thanks so much, Jackson and Chonak.
  • How to handle it? You gather up all your confidence, integrity, honesty, peace, and love of what is due to God and simply tell this holy priest that, due to compelling personal reasons you and your girls will not be available for this occasion... and that you are sure that the cantor will be quite adequate for his needs.
    Thanked by 1tomboysuze
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,949
    Is the "Thy Holy City" asked for the famous late Victorian ballad? What Thomas Day would call a "sweet song" of the kind beloved of Irish-American priests...
    Thanked by 1tomboysuze
  • tomboysuzetomboysuze
    Posts: 289
    smiling, she agreed..."Yes, the cantor will be more than adequate for his needs."

    You are quite right. But, I do feel a sense of obligation to the elderly gentleman (and Knight of the Holy Sepulchre) who brought us there. (He was also at the meeting - talked over and marginalized by the 'hole y' priest.) Nevertheless, I will speak honestly with him today and express our regret that we cannot, as you say, prostitute ourselves and our prayer for the sake of one man's bad taste and priestly bullying.

    The exact same wording "musically prostitute" had occurred to me, actually.
    Many thanks. Blessed lent and holy week to you, Jackson.

  • tomboysuzetomboysuze
    Posts: 289
    @ Liam. Yes, I believe it is. I downloaded an SA copy of it last night, and am more than familiar with the genre - but, honestly, it turns my stomach. I've done a lot of that music before - having worked for an Irish pastor for more than 10 years....but I can't see any beauty in that piece. As a matter of fact, at the meeting in question, the three older men who were there, broke out in song with the refrain;
    "Jerusalem, jerusalem,
    Lift up your gates and sing;
    Hosanna in the highest,
    Hosanna to your King."

    God love them, but I can't see my girls singing the next line....

    "and then me thought my dream was changed, the streets no longer rang...."

    .....(without my own editorial line inserted here:) "i took me gun out of me pants and gave me-self a bang!"

    Sweet Lord, save me! I'm just too old to play this game anymore.
    Thanked by 1expeditus1
  • "One foot in paradise, one in the waste" (excerpt lyric from "Change our hearts, Cooney). If that one line doesn't sum up the dynamic with this issue, if not in the larger arenas of our concerns, I don't know what does. As much as one wants to exonerate the intent of composers such as Cooney and Conry to "inject" their prescriptive imagery from scripture into presumptively lethargic liturgies and hearts, the effect is very much akin to pornography. Such graphic allusions miss the mark and intent of liturgy in the first place, to elevate the soul of every worshipper from whatever befouls their hearts towards that which is so other worldly, so beautiful, that "both feet" are "in paradise." How does an ordained minister not GET that Christ's parable has the wayward son realize as he's mired among swine that he must "rise and go to his father."? Well, so must our expressive wills be fashioned.
    I second Jackson's advice in toto. I would advise you to consider NOT using the word "prostitute" in your rationale with the abbot or whomever. It's important that whatever rhetoric is said may not be heard with equal understanding, and that you and your choir remain above any avenue that could lead to reproach.
    God bless you for your ministry, your integrity and your pastoral common sense.
  • If you're volunteers and the girls don't want to do it, I agree with what was said - gracefully excuse yourself. Unless you feel you can pull off saying, "I'm sorry, but we've worked hard to put together this program. We either do our program or we don't sing." But you would know better than I. Perhaps the girls could give a "recital" of sorts as an alternative.

    And I'm encouraged to hear of the girls' reaction, too. Who says "the young people don't like this stuff"? My junior high and h.s. choir members are more open than the older members of my choir.
    Thanked by 1tomboysuze
  • I'm not sure what the problem is with "methought." It's just the past tense of "methink(s, -eth)." This is not some folksy Irish colloquialism; it's standard archaic English, somewhat on the level of "vouchsafe."
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,949
    Just think of this at Palm Sunday Mass:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=328z5QwT--Q

    .

    PS: I did not realize that the Englishman who penned the lyrics of this (set to music by another Englishman) also wrote Danny Boy. Who knew?
    Thanked by 1tomboysuze
  • tomboysuzetomboysuze
    Posts: 289
    Honestly, I had not even read the text of that "hymn"- I was (literally) so nauseated by the "Holy City" encounter with my iPhone that I had to step away.

    I'm the one who is grateful, because this discussion has helped me discern the cause of my nausea. You're absolutely correct, Charles. How perfectly ironic that my (hence, our) dilemma is encapsulated in the lyric of the piece I've been ordered to perform! (Dante, call your office..) What appears - on the surface - to be a minor matter of holding our noses and singing something we deplore in order to "gain" the privilege of singing something transformational is perverse in and of itself. To then compel the musician to become the instrument with which sacred scripture is bastardized is, forgive me for the drama, but it's the province of the unholy. (Priests, deacons, DRE's, etc. have tried to play this game of "keep away" with us for years, no?)

    The insidious nature of this "bargain" is acutely revealed when young musicians are involved, to my mind. To carry such a bargain further and allow the innocence of young musicians to be demoralized would be really creepy. My girls feel betrayed by this turn of events. They have conquered themselves to perform music at a level that is somewhat above their capabilities. They have polished it until it was a worthy offering - and become vulnerable in order to place it before Christ and the congregation.

    They trusted that the priests in charge of the liturgy would understand and be transformed as they have been transformed. (And, one or two have.) Unfortunately, the Order (like so many) is in decline & decay. They like the girls and appreciate their work on one level, but the friars don't really have the capacity to understand the almost desperate need the girls have to serve the liturgy and serve it well. (They were so excited to learn to read neumes and sing the propers that I was somewhat shocked at the effect. I emailed Jeffrey about it a month or two ago and he posted their experience in the Chant cafe.) But to carry your analogy a step further, Charles, in some sense, they have placed their pearls before the swine....and....forgive me Lord, but the swine ...is ...well, perhaps I should leave it at that.

    And, thank you very much for your concern, Charles. You're point is well-taken. Don't worry, I won't storm the Monastery refusing to pimp my schola! (scandal!)
    May God have mercy on us all.
    You have all been a much needed blessing and a pleasure, but here's my next question: I can stand my ground with graceful, quiet, even cheerful non-involvement - but how do we explain this moral decision to one's friends and the girls parent's without coming off as uppity, temperamental musicians. One of my girls said the same thing last night.
    She couldn't really figure out why she was so repulsed and couldn't put it into words, but they are very sensitive. Can we communicate this to the unclean? (ironic joke alert)
  • tomboysuzetomboysuze
    Posts: 289
    I love archaic text, Mark, I'll never take out a "thy" or a "thou" for a you or a your -- but this is just not graceful in this context. At least I can't see any poetry in it.
    The most dedicated, sensitive choir member started to tear up when she heard this as she imagined herself trying to sing this in that beautiful, live space on Palm Sunday in front of her family, her grandmother and the "pilgrims" that come to the Monastery.
    I'm not kidding.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    This is a song that deserves the probing question: what is the theology behind this piece?

    It avoids looking at the person of Jesus: it only speaks of the crucifixion in terms of "the shadow of a cross", and then it leaps beyond the Cross and skips the Resurrection to speak of the heavenly Jerusalem at the end of time, so it's not really suited for Palm Sunday. This lack of focus on Christ isn't a surprise, since the lyricist and the composer were not Catholics but Freemasons; they were a successful pop-song team of the Victorian era and the song was written as popular entertainment. It was never intended for use in church.
  • tomboysuzetomboysuze
    Posts: 289
    Freemasons? Seriously? I'm shocked but not surprised.

    Thank you 'chonak' so much for that information. Very helpful.

    I sent off a kind, clear and regretful email this morning to my liaison with the Monastery and he (the elderly gentleman) agreed whole heartedly and felt abused at the meeting as well. He was very supportive and disgusted with the meeting. He, in turn, alerted the abbot. So, "it is finished."

    Meanwhile, the mother of one of my choir members (with whom I shared my concerns) called me this afternoon to see what I'd decided. When I told her, she was actually overjoyed, saying, "When you told me what was going on, all I could hear in my soul was 'shake the dust from your feet.' over and over. "

    Furthermore, the girls were immediately invited to sing for Palm Sunday at another church, where I'll most likely end up being the D.M. -- and I'll get fair compensation, as will my assistant director, a talented violinist.

    I cannot stress enough how vital this forum and all of you were to navigating this.
    Thank you so much for taking the time to offer your sage advice and guidance.
    I'm am eternally grateful! A blessed lent and Holy Week to all. Deo Gratias.

    Thanked by 2Jeffrey Quick chonak
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    I'm so glad to hear the good news for you and the girls, tomboysuze. I hope you get to work at a parish who has open ears and minds for sacred music.
    Thanked by 1tomboysuze
  • tomboysuzetomboysuze
    Posts: 289
    dear mia,
    thank you so much. we'll see what God has in mind....
    xo
  • @tomboysuze: So happy to hear of the good outcome (so far)! :) I'll say a prayer for your hopeful job position, too.
  • tomboysuzetomboysuze
    Posts: 289
    Thank you so much, YellowRose -

    The position was already offered to me - I didn't expect it nor was I looking for a D.M. position. But, the priest is so solid, humble and dying for good music at his parish, that I suggested that I do some liturgies for them and see if we are a "fit." It's a parish with a lot of immigrants - a spanish liturgy with a choir of sorts and two filipino choirs who are fighting over a liturgy - so it's a hot mess that has to be gently dismantled and rebuilt. However, the Church is quite beautiful and the acoustics are golden. I rehearsed there last night and my assistant - who is an accomplished violinist and I were literally giddy when we realized that even singing in the corner at the front right of the church registered beautifully everywhere. There is also a fantastic choir loft in the back of the church - my preferred spot. Awful organ, but the pastor and I want to find one being taken out of another church. He's manic for sacred music - so I'm going to take it.
    If you hear of any organs being dismantled, let me know. Blessings and thanks so much for your concern and advice.
  • tomboysuze,
    Where are you located?
  • Glad to hear of a successful resolution, Suze.
    I confess that I dreamed of 'fixing' the lyrics during the sacred liturgy... to the chagrin of the priest, but that is the imp in me. It's great to hear that the girls knew they couldn't sing the stuff.

    I love your line, "I'm too old to play this game anymore". A thousand dittos.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Priests zealous for sacred music are rare enough that we ought to encourage them by all means!
    Thanked by 1ContraBombarde
  • tomboysuzetomboysuze
    Posts: 289
    @ Charles - I'm right outside of DC in Maryland. And thanks again for your succinct and poetic exegesis on "Change Our Hearts" - it was excellent and incredibly helpful.
    @ MaryAnn Carr - Thanks for the encouragement...we're not THAT old, right?
    @ chonak - my feelings exactly - so I guess I'll be jumping into this hot mess. Again, I'm so grateful for your advice & that you took the time to dig into the theological void of "The Holy City". May all your musical encounters be devoid of such 'detritus'....
  • tomboysuzetomboysuze
    Posts: 289
    Update -- Sometimes I think I'm losing my mind when it comes to these silly battles.

    After spending two days trying to navigate the above situation gracefully, I received a phone call tonight from my liaison at the Monastery asking me to come to a meeting with the priests who are doing Holy Thursday and Easter Sunday - so they could "make sure I picked hymns that the congregation can sing" and by the way, they wanted me to know "you don't have to do the Introit." Like that is something controversial or something!
    How bizarre for the abbot to tell him to tell me that!

    And now the gentleman who called me is pretending nothing happened!

    When I asked him about the concerns I expressed and what the abbot said about everything that occurred, he brushed it all aside - and said that the abbott wasn't going to get involved in any of that - and wouldn't interfere with the priest who was so rude at the meeting.

    He went on to talk right over me and wouldn't let me get a word in the conversation.

    I always find it really unsettling when people pretend that a conflict never occurred and then when you politely try to ask about the thing that blew up in the middle of the room - they seem puzzled.

    It's the era of the "twilight zone." All reason has abandoned most of the world.
    I'm stunned.

    This badly managed monastery is even crazier than I thought. I need to disentangle my girls from this all together.

    Your thoughts? Anyone?


  • JennyJenny
    Posts: 147
    I don't think I would go to the meeting. I would send something in writing. "As per my previous discussion with Mr. X, the choir will regrettably not be available..." etc.

    I am also in Maryland but closer to Baltimore. I'd love to come and hear your girls. You can email me if you'd like.
    Thanked by 1tomboysuze
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    I agree with Jenny's suggestion about not attending the meeting, but sending something in writing declining to have your choir sing there. It's in the girls' best spiritual interest as well as yours.
    Thanked by 1tomboysuze
  • tomboysuzetomboysuze
    Posts: 289
    Thanks you guys....that's exactly what I decided to do last night after my head stopped spinning. I'm much obliged for your advice!

    And I'm happy to hear you're so close, Jenny. I will email you. What church?
  • JennyJenny
    Posts: 147
    I am St John, Westminster. Not that close to D. C., I know, but around here we're used to having to drive a good ways to find sacred music!