Collects for the Liturgy of the Hours
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I realize that in the proper of seasons, the collects are often (always?) directly from the Mass of the day, and I believe the same is true for the proper of saints, and possibly the commons as well (although I haven't checked).

    But in the psalter, I can't seem to find a source for the collects, and there's even different ones for different parts of the day (ie, the lauds collect is different from the vespers collect).

    So... are the collects in the psalter found anywhere in the missal? If you haven't guessed, I'm hoping to be able to use the new translation of the collects when I pray LOTH, even after lent is over, and I also have another project in mind...
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Many of the weekday collects in the psalter make reference to the time of day, the work of the day, etc., so I expect that those at least are specific to the LOTH.
  • Pedro d'Aquino
    Posts: 128
    The collects in the four-week psalter are usually taken from sources that are not held in common with the missal. With respect to the collects for Lenten weekdays, in the traditional office the collect of the Mass was used for the offices during the day and at Vespers the proper oratio super populum of the Mass of the feria was used as the office collect. I'm not sure if the LOTH follows the same practice or not, but you might consult the Prayers over the People in the Missal and see if they correspond to any of the Lenten collects.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    That's what I was afraid of. I guess I'll just have to deal with it then...thanks for the help Richard and Pedro.
  • mjballoumjballou
    Posts: 993
    I've been wondering about this since I "orchestrate" a weekly Evening Prayer from the LOTH. We use the booklets from ebreviary with the original office hymns and I've noticed the collects are the older translation. Since these are in the approved LOTH, I'm not sure whether one could simply substitute the revised translation if the prayer is the same as that of the Mass of the day in the old ICEL translation. And I'm loathe to upset anyone's apple cart with what might be perceived as an "unauthorized" change.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    I'm sorry I can't find the link, but I remember readings from a competent Office of Worship (either at the diocesan level or from the USCCB) that it was perfectly acceptable to substitute the newer translations of Collects found in the Missal when an older translation of the same Collect is used in the Liturgy of the Hours, but that one should not feel obligated to do so.

    As for the Collects in the LOTH Psalter, as far as I know, these are not found in the Missal.

    One way to double-check any Collect is to take the Latin of the Collect in question from:
    http://www.almudi.org/Portals/0/docs/Breviario/fuentes/breviario.html

    and search for a few unique words of it in:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/20881056/Missale-Romanum-2002

    If you find a match for the Collect, simply take the new translation out of the corresponding place in the English edition of the Roman Missal.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    For options to the 1970s ICEL translation of the LOTH Psalter Collects (those not found in the Missal), one might want to look at the translation in the Collins "Divine Office" - the translation used in England. I recently came across a copy of this, and these seem to be translated quite a bit more formally here.
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