Liturgical roles of children at School Masses
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,185
    For those who play school masses, I would appreciate your reflections on the following questions:

    Do children take the roles of lector?
    Do children take the role of psalmist/and or cantor?

    If not, who takes these roles at your school masses?

    Thanks.
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    Yes and yes.
    (Is there a reason you are asking this? Any further questions?)

    I personally think it is only problematic when the children are not audible enough. (Which seems to happen more often that it should, and more often than it happens with adults.)
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    In my experience, yes to lector, no to cantor. At the school where I worked, for particularly festal Masses the psalm would be learned by one of the grades, which would sing it as a cantor would, but all together.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    Yes, and yes. The audibility problem is mostly teachers (or whoever is training the kids at the mic) not teaching them to project and slow down, from my experience.

    My second yes is qualified, though: I don't like to put kids out there younger than fourth grade as cantors, even in pairs. I don't like the idea of training their voices for that sort of leadership, and rather encourage them to do choir to get used to good production. That said, I have a bunch of kids from gr. 4-8 now that cantor very well, some by themselves. Would you like to elaborate on the difficulty (or lack thereof) that you're having? ;-)
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    Another qualification: the psalm is usually a seasonal psalm (if it is a ferial day) or the Sunday psalm (again, if it's a ferial day.) I always do the appointed psalm on feasts or solemnities, and will sometimes give it preference during Lent, Easter, etc.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,499
    I have seen children as lectors. I'd say 75% of them are awful, but no more awful than those asked to read at funerals. I do train cantors after their confirmation. The young people I train are good, or they don't cantor. I don't know what happens at all school Masses though.

    What about proclaiming the Gospel. Why didn't you have that on your list? (Oh, and don't laugh, it happened at a "school" Mass here a couple of years ago. A ten year old in a mini-skirt read it. I almost had a heart attack, but Father said nothing and kept it all going along as if nothing out-of-the-ordinary happened. So much for Catholic Education.)
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    My biggest gripe about such school Masses is that it's all well and good to have students as lectors, etc. (i.e. participating in an extraordinary way) so long as they first participate in the primary way, as members of the congregation. Our school kids will spend several weeks learning to proclaim the readings (which they do quite well) and then not respond to the spoken or sung dialogs, participate in the Gloria, or recite the Creed. Those are the things they need to learn to do in order to participate as adults.
  • Maureen
    Posts: 675
    Kids shouldn't be lectoring unless they know how to read out loud at a reasonable pace. With today's educational priorities (ie, not much recitation), you can't necessarily expect that high schoolers or college graduates will be able to do this.

    So if it's going to happen, I think you need to train the kids a bit, or at least have them get in some practice.

    Re: participation -- Incantu, do they not know or agree with the responses? Or are they just responding sotto voce or silently, as many Catholics do and have always done?

    There's also the factor that many kids have had a hard day by 8 AM, and are probably just tired. I was a loud and enthusiastic singer and participator, but given how rotten school is, there were plenty of times I just mouthed the words or kept my face trained to my folded hands. Given how little freedom kids have these days, I wouldn't be surprised if they were exercising their Christian freedom that way.

    I'd be more concerned about stamping out the usual harassment and bullying on the way to and from school Masses.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,185
    Thank you for your comments thus far. I am making this query because the liturgy of the word is not going well where I am. The readings are not prepared well and the psalm is a little better ( because I teach the psalms,etc). Wanting to know what people's experience is.
  • Even though when I was a child, the students read at my school, it would be best if the teachers were to read and the music director lead the singing. I agree with incantu, the chlidren need to first learn to actively participate as members of the faithful. This is the most important work of the faithful. After awhile, as the kids get older, they can take on more responsibilities. Their first and foremost task is to learn the liturgy and that means learning the prayers and the resonses.
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    Kevin- we use a seasonal Psalm from R&A, so it often happens that I go to rehearse with the kids, and whoever is singing it hears it and is like, "oh yeah, I know this one..."
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,185
    Marajoy et al, I use the proper psalm and compose them weekly for the masses. At first the kids were reticent, but they sing them easily now. Wish I could say the same for the readers.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    In my situation, we used to have younger children reading, but our chaplain of the homeschool group decided that readers will be high schoolers, out of reverence for the sacred scriptures.

    It basically came down to this. There's many good readers below high school age, and there are a few not-so-good readers above the cutoff, but since you can't easily pick and choose people based on ability (without hurt feelings), highschool seemed like a good cutoff. And I'd say that works well for our situation (and probably would in most situations)

    I agree with incantu and canadash. Having young children as readers simply isn't a good idea AT ALL in most cases.

    As for cantor, we just have propers at our Masses, so the only real role of the cantor is singing the universal prayer.

    At our Masses, I usually double as Master of Ceremonies, and psalmist/cantor, from the ambo (only the psalm, alleluia, and universal prayer). The rest of the music is lead from the loft by the schola.

    By the way, my situation is in a very conservative catholic homeschool group's First Friday Masses (as well as other occasional Masses). We have a sizable schola, which is filled with participants of the weekly schola class the group offers.
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Lector and psalmist, psalms are read.
    The kids in the the congregation respond audibly, but the pacing of the readings is a little bit very awkward.
  • lmassery
    Posts: 405
    Yes the children lector at my church and I have a pair of cantors, grades 6 to 8, sing the psalm
  • Weekly Mass ministerial duties assigned in rotation to grades 8 to 3 and Student Council.
    *Duties of students: provide introduction; lector OT; recite psalm verses (generally btwn. response often patterned after the "Peoples' Mass Amen/Pachelbel Kanon progression); recite Universal Prayer; process offertory gifts;acolytes/servers.
    *8th grade bell choir assists myself and organist/pianist with ordinary and generally option 4 selections, which include chants among both.

    My teaching duties, beyond musical concerns, also include helping teachers prepare students for their speaking roles. Generally, the results for seven years now has been very successful, even down to the third grade level. Issues of lectionary options vis a vis reading level propriety rarely come up (we have Friday Masses, so we've had David spying upon Bathsheba, Herodius serving up the Baptist's head, etc. recently.) All are well-prepared in such cases and given perspective in the composed introduction (written by me) and all clergy are consulted in advance regarding issues of propriety, introductions and the U.P. In a hyphenated word, nothing's "dumbed-down." Should there arise a necessity regarding vocabulary or content at the lower two grades (3,4) our retired priest and I consult about appropriate options if they are available and licit.
    On festal days, Glory XV is chanted by all students by memory. And their participation level with both singing and MR3 responses is strongly audible and animated, no matter which of six possible celebrants may be presiding.
    We, faculty, staff and clerics, are all making a concerted effort to inculcate the very real perception among students that "being" inside the walls of God's holy dwelling and house requires a conscious change of head and heart through behaviors and attitude.
    Things aren't perfect or ideal yet; but much better as the years come and go.
    Thanked by 1tomboysuze
  • tomboysuzetomboysuze
    Posts: 289
    I agree completely with Charles - sounds like a solid, careful approach and similar to the approach I used for years as a Catholic school music teacher.

    I wanted complete responsibility for the school masses so that I could form and train the students in the hope that this might stick with them. However, I never sacrificed a high standard of reasonable quality to include a child that might not be up to the task whatever the role. It would not be fair to the child, the liturgy, the congregation or to God - whom is the primary concern.

    I did however, make one exception when I let an 8th grade boy, whom previously had no interest in doing anything in Church - cantor a mass. He wasn't very good, but it took so much courage and sweetness from him to even think of doing that in the midst of his jeering peers that I re-organized my priorities on the spot.

    Bottom line - if the students can perform these duties reasonably well on their own - then fine. I used to walk to the podium with my cantors and sing with them for the psalm if they needed help or confidence. But I could nod to the organist, who would cue the choir in the choir loft from there.

    A lot of running the steps....but I loved it. Now some of those students form my H.S. choir, of which I recently posted. Cheers and good luck.
  • As per my experience its yes for both lector and cantor but I agree with Maureen too! Kid’s should not be lectoring till they don’t have good experience in reading. I am happy that my son is learning lectoring loud in his Phoenix preschool. His basics are cleared now.