Don't discount NPM so readily; some of their job listings are worthwhile.

Basically, it's all networking. Meet people, take whatever work you can, and see what pops up.

I found my job on the Archdiocese of Detroit newsletter. I had also applied for jobs I found on catholicjobs.com, on the job openings forum here, and some through the AGO, as well as a couple I heard about through word-of-mouth. I also emailed my resume and a cover letter to the diocesan music directors of dioceses that were either areas I was interested in living in, or that I had heard to be very friendly to good church music.

Sorry for the dismissive attitude about NPM - I stand corrected. It does cost $90 to post for 3 months and in a year I think they've had one job posted in my area, but there are large jobs in faraway locations.

Our Diocesan magazine doesn't have any help wanted or position open ads. I haven't tried the National, though. Thanks for the help!

Gold from you, Rich! Thanks so much for that Yale listing. This is exactly the kind of local information I was hoping to find.

The link to Noel doesn't seem to be working. I have been to his website and checked those links - would that be the same? If so, you don't need to re-post.

Many thanks.

Dear David: thank you for saying what I didn't have the courage to say.

The AGO was not always like this. Thirty or forty years ago it was a sound professional organization that promoted skilled organists for churches, upheld standards, helped organ builders to set standards, and those who held the officers' chairs were professionals to look up to. Like many things, it has been hijacked.

One thing the AGO did do in those days was protect musicians from bad job situations. Churches with a record of losing a lot of musicians in a short time were flagged. I even recall an incident where a church was blackballed by the local AGO for firing a musician without notice - that meant that no member was supposed to seek the job. The church wound up having to hire from out of state. Ironically, the church's hidden agenda was the fired organist's orientation; the new organist, a woman, ran off with a married deacon and broke up his family.

Ultimately it's always about character and real living out of faith, but why belong to an organization that doesn't reflect your values where there are some that do?

Please don't think, don roy, that the Protestant world is any safer. It depends on the individual priest or pastor.

I've been in church music for 40 years and am a late vocation Catholic. I've given my life to worship God and I, too, have often been badly treated, while I was in the Protestant world, where social justice is supposedly a high thing. I decided, personally, if I was going to keep on with church music (and I did retire once because I was so fed up) it would have to be only for the Lord's sake. The price is too high to give any mortal man.

The only difference in Protestantism is that ministers don't have the complete authority of Catholic priests - you can get fired by a committee instead!

I think that in general, boycotting things or businesses because of one issue that they take a side on is silly.

Starbucks or the AGO are not the "American Association of Marriage Equality." They are a professional musician's organization and a coffee house, respectively. I like the networking and scholarly opportunities that the AGO offers and I like Grande, 140 degree, no whip, nonfat mochas.

Well, they're not stupid. I bet they did analysis and found that the vast majority of their customers support that position. And there probably are people who go there MORE because of that position.

Yes, let's do get back on the topic.

A friend mailed me to say he thought I was looking for a new job from my questions on this site. Actually, I'm not planning a move at the moment, although one keeps a weather eye out. But in the past two years we've had to replace staff organists through graduation, moving, family demands, and it keeps getting harder to find people.

Once I'd exhausted the usual word of mouth and local professional organizations I found the Catholic way of hiring was like looking for the pull-tab on an egg. This site has provided more clues in a few days than I got in weeks of searching the ne - Thank you!

I still would like to find a way to smoke out the odd retired organist who would be willing to sub, competent people looking for Saturday Masses, good Cantors, etc.

I still would like to know, from experienced organists, if sudden changes of staff are the norm in the Catholic music world, not having been in it that long. As I mentioned in a previous post, a hair-raising incident came to my ears and the musician had moved his family from another state, too.

Do most of us Catholic musicians work without contracts, or are they just pieces of paper if the priest in charge decides he wants a change? I understand a change of leadership, in any denomination, can mean the budget evaporates and so do you.

i subscribe to DA's two pence.

Hello all,

I must say that my experience does not jibe with that of those posted above. The parishes I have interviewed for (and, indeed, where I now work) were insistent on a contract, as much to protect their rights as mine. I suppose "YMMV" is appropriate here!

TCJ, and others: I can understand this sort of situation. However, should the parish not state in their contract that the musician should (at least in their public life) subscribe to the teachings of the faith, including those of personal morality? If this were the case, I would think (despite the aforementioned policies of the AGO) that the guild would have to admit that the employee was at very least in violation of their contractual terms? I think the guild is far more interested in getting musicians good salaries, contracts, and working conditions than in pushing a social agenda. They are shrewd enough to realize that this is all a sort of Gordian knot, and the more individual churches are threatened by the government over conscience clauses, the less likely they are to have money to hire those the guild represents... That would be a difficult circumstance for the parish, but on the other hand, do they preach often about morality? If so, great: they are consistent; if not, I would have a hard time being sympathetic.

To the comments above, PGA, I agree: it is a professional organization. To me, it still acts that way. DA, I am sorry to hear about the situation, and how unfortunate that is: nonetheless, if there were grounds and solid proof of an employment injustice, the guild MUST help: that is their part of the agreement. If there is nothing you could do personally about it, though, I would think you would understand them being in a similar position. Of course it is difficult to know the whole situation.

For what it's worth, Protestant places (at least assuming they are doing okay financially) seem to be fine with musicians as long as they present results, and seem less likely to have knee-jerk reactions. I know of few places were a really solid musician is fired in the Protestant world unless that person is not getting the job done or is a particularly difficult person to deal with. Catholic seminaries doesn't teach due process in employment to priests as a rule, so you really are at the mercy of the pastor. Seminaries themselves don't often have tenure, so they are equally "fluid" (a euphemism?) in their hiring practices.

In short, I think the AGO is still a force for good: I am biased, since I am on a chapter executive committee! However, in the two years I have served, we have done research on pay for services (including weddings and funerals) in an effort to improve compensation for musicians in the area and then circulated those results to churches to remind them of just wages. We promote the instrument to the community, etc., and do many other things. I understand that these sort of organizations do not always line up 100% with someone's moral views, but it is not as if they are providing abortions and sterilizations!

Francis, I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to (since you didn't quote a particular section of my admittedly-too-long-post), but I know plenty of fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminates, liars, thieves, coveters, drunkards, extortioners, etc....who are Catholic!

What's in a name?

You'll pardon me if I resisted conversion to Catholicism for quite some time because I could not see the moral views lived out in Catholics themselves.

But hey, I'm just some guy hiding behind my screen!

Mara, herein lies the double-edged sword: those of us with families depend on the contract for some sort of due process. Even if it's thirty days' notice, that's better than one days' notice! The people that aren't as dependent on the contract? Singles! Not that they should be discriminated against, but...

An example: often parishes are "pick out" homosexuals in their moral teaching, as you say. Those same parishes also often don't pay enough for someone to pick up their whole family and move for a job! So, why are they surprised when they find out their hire is openly homosexual? Another sad example: the Church claims to encourage large families, etc. However, our diocesan insurance policy recently changed to an "equivalent" policy. I stuck with the high-premium-low-deductible plan so I wouldn't be hit hard if something came up. Imagine my surprise when we had kid #2 and the birth cost thousands of dollars...much more than our first child's birth, who was premature and was in the hospital in NICU for ten days. The diocese had traded our insurance policy which was a flat $500 per childbirth for one that split all the costs 80/20 insurance/employee...the same as if I had a kidney removed. Way to encourage big families. I am thankful, especially to my pastor, every day that my material situation at my job is good...I realize this is often not the case.

Anyhow, sorry for the rant, but these inconsistencies are frustrating!

My heart is troubled by these sad divisions in our Church.