Not Quite Complicated English Proper (NQCEP)
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 757
    I'm interested in the development of vernacular chant complements to the traditional Latin proper settings. Adam Bartlett's Simple English Propers project is a good example of the possibilities, especially for those musicians who lack the confidence to approach the originals (wrongly in my opinion - like most sight-reading exercises, those with basic musicianship skills can achieve a lot with a little application & self-discipline). I would encourage you to explore them. John Anslie's suggestion that they don't do service to the originals misses the point - they represent a preliminary investigation that doesn't aspire to the complexity and subtlety of the original, but offers a useful and accessible blend of traditional style with the vernacular. I also feel that his emphasis on the problems such settings face with regard to text-setting reflects a wholly admirable respect for the perfection of the Latin originals, but a narrow understanding of the relation of text pattern to melody that is happy with psalm tones, yet unwilling to explore the creative fusion of the vernacular with the glories of the melismatic tradition.

    Adam's chants are new compositions in a traditional style. I believe there is also room for direct developments of the traditional chants, adapted to vernacular texts in manner that is sensitive both to the language and the melismatic original, without slavishly attempting to reproduce its every note. I am beginning to experiment with this, and have reached the stage where I have begun to commit ideas to paper, but am not yet satisfied that they have reached a publishable state. We will, however, sing one such exploration on Sunday evening at the Offertory, and I attach it here as a suggestion of what might be done.
  • Absolutely spot on rationale that I can attest works in real practice. I've mentioned this before- coming back from first colloquium armed with PBC's for my fairly advanced choir, they moaned and groaned when I unveiled it in the didactic rehearsal. Vox populi doth mean something, along the lines in the U.S. of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." So, I starting transcribing propers ala Bruce Ford from RR's COMMUNIO.
    A couple of years hence, and we'd started rotating Ford's AG with RR's SCG settings, along comes SEP. Come home from Pitt armed with choir set of SEP's. Hesitant at first, one Sunday I couldn't locate the Rice Communio, so I simply brought out the SEP's, let me state again: ON SUNDAY MORNING!!! They sight sang square notes on four lines without a mumblin' word. Then we took that experience back to the rehearsal room and now have arrived at the point where we don't rehearse them during the week. They know where to find them at Cafe, but I really don't think they go there. They just needed to get over the "concept" which wasn't Everest but a speed bump. I cannot state how important this is, because at this point they still want to very much function as a polyphonic choir, but they also seem to thrive getting the basic nuances that chant notation make apparent without all the signs of modern notation. It has been a win win.
    Should I ever find the opportunity to move over to true Gregorian Latin sources, they will be primed. In the meanwhile, whether its Bartlett, Ostrowski, Oost Zinner, Weber or Kelly, we're equipped due to SEP. Intuitive invention trumps pedagogy in this unique endeavor.
    Thanked by 2IanW [Deleted User]
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    I think your effort is wonderful !
    Thanked by 1IanW
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,775
    Nice, and best of good luck with the worthy project of getting people a little further past the gateway. Be sure to tell us how the first read-through went at the word "footsteps", though. ;-)
    Thanked by 1IanW
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I, for one, think this new project is excellent, and think this project and projects like it will be an important next step.

    From my perspective, SEP will hopefully become the default setting for the propers, in the same way that psalm tones were the default before the council. The lowest common denominator, if you will. Yet, they are still something substantial, something with dignity, and at the same time, something you can pick up and sing 30 minutes later with minimal practice, something not many can do with the propers. Something to pave the way, something to be that gateway to chant, like Charles was talking about above with his choir.

    These new settings of the proper of the Mass are an excellent next step in our ongoing liturgical renewal.

    Keep it up! I look forward to seeing your work as you continue.
    Thanked by 1IanW
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 757
    Richard: as I review the neumes I see that the first note after the long of 'foot-' might appear as if it goes with '-steps', which would indeed make what follows difficult; the intention is for '-steps' to go with the 3rd note, not the 2nd. I also toyed with the idea of omitting the rising pair to which 'in' is currently set, and placing it instead with the first two notes of the descending triple that follows, with 'your' on the third. It's an interesting matter of balance between vernacular word-setting and following the original melody. I might still change it. I have until Sunday afternoon to make up my mind!
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 757
    Well, it worked. I think I'll leave it as it is, apart from the layout problem with 'foot-' that Richard spotted. We only had time to sing the antiphon, as it's a small church & snow had minimised congregation numbers. In my own mind it confirmed that, at least in the case of this Offertory chant, it is possible to adapt the melismatic original to an English translation, so long as one is prepared to think about the relationship of text and music and make changes where desirable.

    ps full marks to the St. Jude Schola for reading it on 50 minutes rehearsal, in addition to GR Introit & Communio, responsorial psalm etc. Snow meant no chant specialists with us today, but a solid core of good musicians did their stuff. I stood my round later by way of apology.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,303
    IanW, are you planning to make this a weekly project? I think that it is a WONDERFUL idea. I think it's important to have a bridge between the SEP and the GR. This is definitely a step in the right direction--three cheers!
    Thanked by 1IanW
  • Heath
    Posts: 934
    Ian, more, please! I think the next step up after the SEP needs to manifest itself!
    Thanked by 2irishtenor IanW
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 757
    Thanks to IrishTenor from an English one (of Welsh extraction), and to Heath, for your kind encouragement. It's more likely to be a monthly project as that's how often the St. Jude Schola does its stuff (every 1st Sunday). Professional responsibilities and singing take up much of the rest of the month, and I prepare material for the Mass on the daily commute to & from Babylon! The trick will be to get a month or two ahead of myself, so that I can publish in time for their consideration & use. I'm happy to encourage others to try their hands at this, too - that was partly the point of the thread.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,775
    Ian,

    It already sings gratefully; without recomposing you could probably eliminate stumbling by just respelling the dotted note as a punctum followed by a clivis ('clivis pressus'?).
    Thanked by 1IanW
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 757
    Thanks for the suggestion, Richard - a good one.