Let us welcome the celebrant as we join in singing our entrance hymn
  • francis
    Posts: 10,759
    What is your take on this:

    One of my cantors who moved here from New York told me that every church he has ever attended always introduced the celebrant this way... He has done it three times and I finally told him that it is not appropriate to 'welcome the priest' because the Mass is not about the priest. Where did this practice come from and what is your take on this?
  • Dunno. You can show your new cantor the GIRM section on the entrance chant:

    47. When the people are gathered, and as the Priest enters with the Deacon and ministers, the Entrance Chant begins. Its purpose is to open the celebration, foster the unity of those who have been gathered, introduce their thoughts to the mystery of the liturgical time or festivity, and accompany the procession of the Priest and ministers.

    Nowhere does it say that the pupose of the chant is to welcome the priest.
  • Maureen
    Posts: 678
    It's not the people's house. It's not the priest's house. It's God's house. We have no business welcoming either the priest or newcomers as a liturgical action, because that is like presuming we're God. (It may also be about presuming that some layperson runs the parish and that priests just come in on Sunday... but we'll stick with the offense against God and not the one against the pastor or visiting priest.)

    It also demands that the first song must be a "gathering song" instead of any other format. This is the school of thought that leads to singing "All Are Welcome" every week of the year, until your ears bleed. So it also contributes to error.

    Individuals greeting (not welcoming!) other individuals down in the pews is a qualitatively different matter, because it makes sense on a human level. An individual saying a politeness phrase like "Welcome to St. X", even from a cantor at the mike, still works on this human level and isn't as presumptuous. It's not desirable, because it doesn't have anything to do with actual Mass and is distracting; but it's a sop to what people have erroneously been trained to expect. If you say it quickly, it's soon over, and we can get down to actual worship.

    Unless you're going to formally welcome all the unbaptized and tell them they should join RCIA, which would at least make some kind of evangelizing sense.
    Thanked by 2benedictgal CHGiffen
  • "Let us stand and greet our celebrant with our entrance hymn, Hail, Holy Queen ..."
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,196
    Ha! I have actually heard that one at a Mass!

    Besides, it's not fitting to treat the celebrant as if he were a visitor: he is part of the community.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I've heard that too, and when I've worked in an announcing parish I put a stop to it. The opening hymn kind of does need something before it. It seems self-evident to me that, if you aren't listening to any speaking, you're going to tend to miss the first few words. At least I do.

    What I used was "Welcome to St. X on the 3rd Sunday in Ordinary Time. The celebrant is Fr. Y. The opening hymn is number 123 in the Z Hymnal. Title. One, two, three."

    Given this will doubtlessly turn into a rant of how much everyone hates announcements, I'll be the moderate to say that, while I don't like them, they should be clear and absolutely as short as possible. At times, I've just said "The hymn: 123, name, one two three." And I don't get this "please" stuff. "Please, O pretty please join us in our hymn..."

    Make it a statement of fact, not a request or an order. This is the hymn. You can do with that information as you will.
  • At our parish the announcement reads as follows:

    Good afternoon and welcome to the parish of ____. All music and the order of worship for today's liturgy can be found on the inside back of the Sunday bulletin, avaliable at the entraces of the church. In order to preserve the dignity of the Eucharist that we are about to celebrate, please take a moment to silence all cell phones and other electronic devices. The entrance hymn can be located on the inside back cover of the bulletin: God is My Great Desire.

  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    We usually have something like this. [bracketed texts only said as appropriate]

    Welcome to this Mass at (Church-building-name) of the Cathedral Parish of St. Raphael. Today we celebrate [The Xth Sunday of Y] [The solemnity of X] [The Feast of X].

    [Very occasionally, announcements about the Mass happen here: "Today Bishop Morlino will be consecrating Jane Doe as a Consecrated Virgin living in the World" or "Today Bishop Morlino will confirm 47 young people from our cathedral parish"]

    [Please join in our opening hymn, number four nine two, "hymn name", number four nine two.]

    [All our music for the Mass today can be found in the programs handed out by the ushers at the doors. Please join in our opening hymn, XYZ.]
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,196
    I dropped the "welcome", because it's a small congregation, and nice, friendly people started responding to the greeting:

    Cantor: "Welcome to St. Euphemia's Church..."
    Several voices: "Thank you, Richard."
    Cantor: "Today is the Forty-fourth Sunday in Nondescript Time...".

    So I go straight for "Today is...", and nobody has seemed to mind.
  • I plead guilty to having used the "Welcome" form prior to the Midnight Mass. The only reason why I made the announcement was to encourage those who normally do not attend the parish to please make use of the pew cards for the revised translation. I do not normally make an announcement, as I launch into the SEP Introit.

    It did bug me to no end when I went to another parish and heard the exact same greeting that was indicated in the original post. Talk about making the celebrant the focus of the Mass. It was bizarre.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,965
    I don't do announcements. The pastor hates them. There is a large hymn board - taller than I am - in the front with 6-inch numbers. I begin the intro to the opening hymn and the singing starts for the procession.
    Thanked by 3Ben Steve Q tomboysuze
  • When shall the Church Universal come to realize that the Mass is NOT a "celebration." Yes, I understand and know the full text of this word, but most do not. Yes, I know that we are an "Easter people." However, we are not resurrected by Our Lord and Saviour until we have taken up our cross in this life and been through the trials and sacrifices and thus "crucified in Christ." Then and ONLY then is our joy complete.

    Let me share and old saying that has been set at many a door of Anglican churches throughout time and locations. Perhaps, along with other notices, bulletins and other news worthy events, these words should be ENGRAVED upon every church door of every church throughout the world and atop of every bulletin and handout for all to recited and meditated on.

    "Hush! For GOD is here! Enter this door as if the floor within were gold,
    And every wall of jewels all of wealth untold;
    As if a choir in robes of fire were singing here;
    Nor shout, nor rush, But hush ... For God is here!"
  • francis
    Posts: 10,759
    Abbot

    Love that saying!
  • Announcement:
    "Our ENTRANCE hymn can be found in your (color: red/maroon) hymnal at number ###, (title), number ###".

    We don't have a board, and I use the words "Entrance, Offertory, Communion, and Recessional", not "Gathering, Preparation of the Gifts, Communion Processional, or Sending Forth".

    Color codes: Red=Worship III / Maroon=Hymnal 1940.
    BMP
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,177
    "We speak to God before Mass.
    God speaks to us during Mass.
    We speak to each other after Mass."
  • Steve QSteve Q
    Posts: 121
    Our pastor also hates announcements, especially during the mass (I guess you might say that prior to the Entrance is not during the mass). He says that announcing hymn numbers sounds to him like, "Attention Kmart shoppers!" So we do as CharlesW does - just put the numbers on the hymn board and start. The congregation is pretty well trained to look for the numbers and find them in the book for themselves.
  • Steve QSteve Q
    Posts: 121
    The pastor also told me that no welcome comments should be necessary before mass, because there should be no need to add or enhance the words of the Greeting given by the priest. That's why he won't even say, "Good morning." Scripture already tells us how we should greet each other and it is incorporated into the mass, so why change it or try to add to it?
  • Announcements about anything before mass? Never, Ever.
    This is the sequence of events that should lead into mass:
    1. People enter, are greeted, and given a mass leaflet with needed hymns, etc.
    2. People sit and/or kneel in contemplative prayer, during which
    3. The organ plays a voluntary/prelude which evokes the theme or emotions of the day
    4. When all is in (unannounced) readiness, the organ introduces the hymn, and, without
    further ado
    5. Everyone sings the hymns as the procession of (choir?) and sacred ministers ascends
    the altar
    6. The introit may be sung as the altar is censed.
    7. Celebrant sings 'in the name...'
    8. And so on, everyone speaking (chanting) only the ritual text
    No announcements of any kind, no interruptions of the ritual continuum, no comments.
    Just the mass and its ritual texts, acts, and music
    from beginning to end

    There are, of course, those clowns who, upon reading the above would snortle that there is no place for some interjected commentary. (How Right!), no welcoming announcements for visitors who, because they are daft, don't know where they are (How Right again!), There's no place for someone to say something cute to make the people giggle and feel at home (How right again) - they're not after all 'at home' - they are in the House of the Lord, the Holy of Holies. While there they are celebrating Holy Mass. This is an interaction between heaven and earth which does not resemble any other sort of human activity. It is unthinkable that anyone should interrupt or append to the ritual and acts intrusions or commentary that are foreign to it. It is astonishing that those who do these things do them with an impertinent and unabashed lack of embarrassment, because they are doing something horribly distracting that is a blight on the liturgy. (It's not that these people are not needed: it is just that they are not at all needed to do these things.)
  • It's not more "orthodox" or "faithful" or "conservative" to not welcome visitors and let them know where to find things.

    We also don't announce hymns DURING mass - the order is printed on the bulletin. But if you never came to our church before you might not know that. And we have a sizeable amount of visitors - so I guess I'm one of those "clowns" who prefers to not have people wander in and be in the dark about how to follow or participate in the mass.
    Thanked by 1benedictgal
  • In one of those rare instances where Laredo might just have a freak snow storm, I agree with PGA.

    In the instance of the third Sunday in September, when my dad's parish introduced the new musical settings of the revised Roman Missal, I rehearsed the sung parts with the faithful a few minutes before Mass. A few minutes prior to starting Mass, I repeated the announcement about the Mass part changes for the stragglers coming into church.

    We don't give out the bulletin before Mass because folks tend to read it during the liturgy. We also don't have a board.

    The only time that I will make the announcement about following the pew cards is on Christmas and Easter when we will have visitors (for the same reasons PGA indicated).
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I love putting food in my tummy more than I hate announcements at church. So sue me.
  • Our congregation is bell trained :)
    One of the servers gives a nice loud ring to the bell we keep on a bookshelf in our small vestibule. Everyone stands, and the introit begins.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 982
    In the first two parishes that I worked at, I was required to announce the hymns if there was no cantor. I hated doing this, but I can see that naming the hymn can be useful for those who can't see the board. At the first parish, I just did a short announcement: "The entrance hymn is number ###, Title." The second parish's pastor FORCED me to do a ridiculous, long-winded opening speech at every Mass to make sure that everyone was welcome, knew to stand when the priest arrived, knew the hymn number, the week of the year, whether it was a Sunday or not, and had me begging them to join in singing. Yeah, I hated that even more.

    Now where I work I don't have to do announcements at all. The priest announces the entrance hymn and for all the rest, the people just have to look at the board or the choir will sing alone.

    Thankfully, nowhere have I had to welcome the priest! That sounds preposterous, but I can believe that people actually do it.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,759
    I don't mind the announcing the hymn part, it's the welcoming of the priest that sounds 'off' to me. My last pastor said it was innapropriate, but I just wanted to make sure since I have a cantor who is used to doing this and I am putting the quash on it.
  • Whereas announcing a hymn could serve a purpose in assisting people, welcoming the priest is just a little goofy and misplaced. I agree that its inappropriate. Don't quash too hard and alienate a good cantor, but welcoming the priest simply doesn't need to happen. I've heard it lots in this diocese (San Diego) and its just plain silly.

    Chonak, you had me busting up at 'Hail Holy Queen'!
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    @Gavin

    Hahaha!
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Pointing out that the Entrance Hymn does not "Welcome the priest" may be embarrassing for your cantor. Perhaps it would be better to suggest everyone go off of a script with an efficient formula.
  • I really don't want to "contribute" to this contentious issue; but, some of us labor under supervision that prefers not to have a sacristy bell used, not to have the organ introduction function as the indicator to stand, etc. ad nauseum. This "welcome the celebrant" is a non-starter, to the contrary any welcomes verbally made are done in the name of the pastorate on behalf of the Church universal.
    However, in such a situation where a musician must function as "commentator" or Master of Ceremonies, two offices still valid theoretically, I might recommend that the invitation to stand be phrased mindful of the "prayers at the altar." Something along the lines of "We now stand before the altar of our Lord, praising Him singing "proper/hymn/song" title." Before anyone autoflames me, consider that the Mass does not formally begin until the singing of the Introit, contrary to what some reviewers mention over at Ship of Fools in their reports.
    I would love to recover the use of the sacristy bell where I am. When it happens, I'll give everyone a ring.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,759
    I think I will use the zimbelstern to signal the cong... or a five second hold on the low C in the ped using the 64' Resultant which just shakes the entire church without really making a sound.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,177
    Zimbelstern mit 64 ft Resultant - das freut mich sehr.
  • Steve--I also work for a pastor who does not like announcements. It was a difficult transition when he came on board a year ago because everything was always announced and some of my ministry used to actually argue as to who got to do the announcing. I finally decided, given the priest's desires, to put up a hymn board that has the numbers in the hymnal and for the entrance hymn, I usually play in through instrumentally to give the people time to find it. After that, they have to look at the board for the number.
    I like it this way much better because, like someone said, too many announcements during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, tends to disturb the sacredness. All parish announcements are made just prior to the final blessing and that is working well.
  • How odd this should come up. I just heard this exact pre-Mass announcement for the very first time at my parish, from a relatively new cantor. It was really weird...
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    There is only one occasion where I have to speak to the people from the organ; it's a retirement home, so we have both an announcement through the celebrant/organist/Liturgy of the Word-presider and a table on which number cards are installed prior to mass/Liturgy of the Word. This way people who see bad can hear and people who hear bad can see what to sing.
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    We had a new priest, who consistently said "Good morning" when he got to the chair; I told him that the liturgy provides him with a proper greeting, it is called "Dominus vobiscum.
  • Somehow I had it lodged in the morass of me mind it were supposed t' be:
    "In Nomine Patris...."
  • francis
    Posts: 10,759
    i think the confusion arrived when we exchanged the entrance rite with the "right of greeting".
  • I've been to many masses where the celebrant comes up the aisle, sits in the chair and then immediately welcomes all the people and begins (and also ends) the mass with a joke. Is it just me or does this kind of mentality have to stop? It's no wonder that I'm having such trouble with hymnody acceptance, let alone chant.
  • expeditus1
    Posts: 483
    Entrance and recessional football jokes provide the comic backdrop during football season. Fairly common in a number of WI churches that I have visited.
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,055
    Any mitres made of cheese?
  • I've witnessed a celebrant (in the parish I grew up in; I was back visiting a few years ago) think of another point he wanted to make in his homily, but he thought of it after we had already started saying the Creed. He stopped the Creed to make his really minor point! I just about fainted. This after a homily filled with golf jokes and irrelevant quotes from a book he happened to have read recently.
  • expeditus1
    Posts: 483
    Liam, as far as I know, those cheesy mitres have been retired, and the mitres of our current Bishops would be more akin to iron, than Swiss.
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    Charles, you are correct that "In nomine Patris . . ." comes first and then "Dominus vobiscum" (or "Gratia Domini . . ."). This does express a priority, invoke the Trinity first and then comes the greeting--theocentric first, then anthropocentric.
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    This does express a priority, invoke the Trinity first and then comes the greeting--theocentric first, then anthropocentric.

    And if it were the other way 'round, then we would say that, by the genius of the Roman Rite, the "exterior" greeting is anthropocentric while the invocation more "interior" to the liturgy is theocentric, thereby proving that with each step we take toward the altar and the heart of the sacred action we are leaving worldly concerns behind and turning our thoughts to God. :-/
  • At Saint Edward, the bells ring and the introit (either from the GR or SEP) begins. The
    people have learned to stand up the moment the bells ring.