Ecumenical Hymn Festival
  • Aaron
    Posts: 110
    I have been asked to choose one Catholic hymn to be sung by all in an ecumenical hymn festival late in January around the week for Christian unity. Each denomination is being given one hymn slot. Whats your suggestion for the Catholic hymn?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    "Hymn to the Holy Name" by Wm. Cardinal O'Connell

    verse 4: "Up Christian Soldiers, Christ who goes before us,
    Shows us His cross and leads the way;
    Benedict our Pontiff, guides and God is o'er us,
    Vict'-ry is ours if we but watch and pray.

    Hm: maybe you'd better stop after verse 3. :-)
  • Adam Bartlett
    Posts: 533
    Tu es Petrus!
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    Or Adoro te devote. This devotional hymn to the Blessed Sacrament precedes the Christian divisions in the West. It's also lovely.

    You could use my translation if you wanted.

    With devotion I adore
    You, O God concealed;
    Hidden under figures here,
    yet by faith revealed.
    Even prayer is silent now.
    All my heart bows low.
    Deepest truth is present here,
    More than minds can know.

    Seeing, touching, tasting You--
    Senses can deceive.
    Hearing is the path of faith
    This shall I believe.
    Jesus said it; I believe.
    True His words must be:
    God the Son, the Word of truth,
    must speak truthfully.

    On the cross You only hid
    Your divinity.
    Here You also have concealed
    Your humanity.
    Yet I still believe in both,
    and this faith I say,
    And the prayer the good thief prayed,
    this I also pray.

    Thomas saw Your wounded hands
    And your wounded side
    Even though I do not see
    I am satisfied
    Jesus Christ, my Lord, my God,
    Gladly I adore.
    Make me trust you, hope in you,
    Love you more and more.

    O memorial of the death
    of my living Lord,
    Living Bread whose saving health
    Human life restored.
    Let me find my life in You,
    Ever-living food.
    Let me ever taste of You,
    Knowing You are good.

    Pelican, so full of love,
    Jesus, gracious Lord,
    Wash me, cleanse me of my sins
    in Your blood outpoured.
    All the sins in all the world
    that have ever been--
    Just one drop is blood enough:
    all may be made clean.

    Jesus, hidden from my eyes,
    Bring me to that place
    Where your saints in endless joy
    See you face to face.
    How I long to gaze on you
    Through eternity.
    Blest are they who trust in you
    And your glory see.

    Trans. c. 2009 Kathleen Pluth
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Aaron

    As a member of CMAA I would like to invite you to our upcoming Colloquium. It will be an experience you will always remember, and the music will accompany the Holy Sacrifice. There is nothing on earth that equals this mystery or its music.

    Sincerely

    Francis Koerber
  • Adam Schwend
    Posts: 203
    Holy God, We Praise Thy Name
    Faith of Our Fathers
    O Sacrament Most Holy
    Jesus My Lord, My God, My All
    Praise to the Holiest in the Height
    Soul of My Savior
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    I was going to suggest Adoro te devote, also. With Kathy's translation available, I endorse it even more strongly!
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    VENI CREATOR SPIRITUS
    Think about it, and why.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Can the ecumenical hymn singers handle Latin?
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    If they can handle the esssentially Greek term, "ecumenical....."
    Sure, chant it in the modern lingua franca, English. The point is....
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    Te Deum would get my vote, but it might be a little shocking! Especially if it's done in alternatim like this!
  • vinny
    Posts: 5
    Aaron, you should use Newman's "Firmly I believe, and truly." It's in the St. Michael hymnal to a great tune and has a Latin refrain!
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    If it's Ecumenical, in order to show our unique identity, it should definitely be one of the Latin greats.... I am thinking the Adoro te Devote would be the top choice.
  • Aaron
    Posts: 110
    Thanks, I appreciate the great suggestions. Francis, thanks for the invite. I will see if I can make it again this year. I have been to the last two in Pittsburgh.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    o jeez Aaron... now i am jealous... you've been to twice as many than me! hey.. hope to see you there this summer. i am going to this year's God willing.
  • awruff
    Posts: 94
    I would not advise during a hymn about eucharist or eucharistic adoration if the eucharist is not being celebrated or adored. Although I've seen this done very occasionally at hymnfests, I think the words are rather meaningless in that context.
    awr
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    awruff... this is all about evangelizing since they don't have or even know what the Eucharist is. it's the perfect piece to stir interest in the faith... "in season and out of season" as the scriptures say!
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    I'm not sure I'd afford any credence to AWR's admonition that employing any hymn associated with the Eucharist or its adoration as inappropriate in that it would "occur" out of context, or a liturgical performance; an "ecumenical" hymn festival (what is that constitutionally, exactly anyway?) isn't any different than a demo CD touting the merits of whatever music is being proferred.
    Not to beat a dead horse, but why NOT Veni Creator Spiritus/Veni Sancte Spiritus in Latin, no matter how it's arranged at such a "shared" experience? These are hymns commemorating the emergence of the universal Church, its Nativity (so to speak) at which the descent as promised of the Spirit coalesced the beliefs and the tongues of diverse peoples who believed into universality, commonality and (whoa, Nelly) comprehension. It seems to me more natural to render such a text in one lingua franca or the other with that historical and theological precedence in mind, especially in contrast to the modern tendencies towards polyglot attributes in our and other traditions that are, uh, en vogue.
    Howabout a new alius cantus aptus: Be Not Ashamed?
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    Holy God, We Praise Thy Name (the version with the eight notes). [Btw, a couple of decades ago, I heard a wonderful (but quite likely apocryphal, as I've never found a proper source for it) story about Grosser Gott: that, during some propaganda rally in World War II in Germany (the version I heard included Goebbels as haranguer-in-chief for the occasion), someone in the crowd started singing Grosser Gott, which was gradually taken up by the crowd and drowned out the haranguer.The thought of this pleases me immensely, but I have a hard time imagining it worked that smoothly.]

    I would second Veni Sancte Spiritus but only in the English paraphrase for this context (much as I prefer the Latin for Catholic liturgy). That said, I believe Fr Ruff's caution is apt. You don't stir interest in the faith by being tone deaf to the occasion.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Point taken, Liam, but what, as I asked, is the nature of the occasion? Is it a well-dressed Kumbaya moment, an exposition of related but distinct cultural traditions, many of which including the Veni's and Grosser Gott are shared among non-Catholic hymnals, a y'all come incoherent smorgasbord, a mannered feast of differing haute cuisines, or what? And what do you mean, "stir interest in the faith...?" I thought it was, if nothing else, a singfest.
  • Mark P.
    Posts: 248
    Since it's an ecumenical occasion, I suppose a Marian hymn would be completely out. If that were a possibility, I'd suggest "Hail Queen of Heav'n, the Ocean Star," which is kind of insidious since it's a well-crafted hymn with a traditional (and tasteful) tune.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    Charles

    If the ostensible goal is that everyone sing, as originally stated, then one does not propose anything that might reasonably be expected to prompt indigestion, without buying the indigestion, else one be too cute or churlish by half. That doesn't mean no different flavors or spices; but flavors and spices chosen with care towards the audience.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    If the song has to be something not just sung by all, but singable-from-the-heart by all, then what's the point of ecumenism? Shouldn't ecumenism involve a dialogue that respects our differences, for the purpose of fostering unity in the truth? Or is it a false syncretism, papering over true differences with false irenicism for the purpose of pretending we're united already?
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    Indeed, are we confusing "ecumenical" with "interdenominational" or "interfaith" or what?
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    CHG

    Yes, I think that is a common confusion. I would take this event like this to be interdenominational in substance, rather than ecumenical.

    Singing is not dialogue about differences. Singing is the handshake that can precede such a dialogue. Handshakes (of the substantive kind, as here) have their place, too.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Chuck and Liam, I don't think defining doctrinal perspectives to characterize the event is the point at all. Yes, "singing is not a dialogue about differences" or similarities, for that matter. However, the etiquette that Liam/AWR wish to impose is fairly innocuous if conforming to some articulated artiface of what constitutes, both in text and music, a hymn (as if we haven't beat that horse recently) so that everyone's comfort level isn't disturbed. Christendom isn't in communion literally, and we (I thought) don't self-regard the Catholic communion as being among those sects called denominations. And within our own communion, we wouldn't expect the Chaldeans, Syriacs, Copts or our Anglican Ordinariate fellows to adhere to one central ideal of text/musical form to which we must all adhere while performing together. (We couldn't even expect RC's to do that!) So, if we are to "neuter" the idealogical content for comfort, we might as well just have the equivilent of Sing Along With Mitch and follow the bouncing ball at the cinema during intermission! If it's about fellowship first, meaning second, then sing "Let there be peace on earth" or even a Berthier-like invention without Godspeak and in Esperanto. "Nuff said."
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    Charles

    I hardly consider the Te Deum in its most classic Catholic strophic hymn paraphrase, or the Veni Sancte Spiritus in English, a neutering of content. I think you overshot here.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    MOST ecumenical efforts masks a false understanding of Christians in unity. The Catholic Church is not and never will be on par, equal to, or parallel to other Christian denominations. It ALONE holds the fulness of the truth, and we perceive other Christians who are not Catholic to be 'veiled' from the full truth. Our goal is ALWAYS to bring separated brethren into the fulness of truth, found only in the Catholic Church.

    For a better understanding of the issues and dangers of false ecumenism, this site seems to have some good info, but be cautious about the revelations part.

    http://www.saveourchurch.org
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Well, Francis, Liam and AWR have called into question the purpose of the ecumenical hymn sing in terms of manners and etiquette, and I don't think we need bring out heavy artillery to address those concerns. First of all, KLS, we have talked passed each other- I in no way suggested that either of those hymns were examples of neutered content so as to not inconvenience the occasion. "Singing is not dialogue about differences. is true in your terms if the exercize of the event only concerns the act of singing as a physical act. In that case, why superimpose the artiface of "ecumenical....interdenominational (RCC is not a denomination, as I understand it)... or unity" as a manner in the first place? Among RCC's we can't agree upon what constitutes a hymn, much less a "cantus." Among our own communion, how could we pre-condition an ecumenical, all-sings-all, "hymn festival" that presumes a consensus of form and content among Romans, Chaldeans, Syriacs, Copts and Anglican Ordinariates et al? If you take away the pre-condition, we might learn and benefit from something. Diluting the event by worrying about indigestion among one or more parties is a pre-emptive strike on behalf of mediocrity. A hymn is a hymn is a hymn is a hymn doesn't even play between the Oxfords, the High Lutherans, the Mennonites, the lowlands evangelical shape note traditions, etc. And, in my usual overkill, is the same hymn as sung by Keith Green/Rich Mullins (RIP) or Matt Maher/Chris Rice, or Stan Fortuna/John Michael Talbot mean the same via their ecclesial perspectives tho' the template is the same?
    Now I've overshot. Sorry 'bout the redundancies.
    But I think that you need to consider that what you and AWR are advancing might actually be just some elevated version of Sing Along with Mitch or "follow the bouncing ball" intermission glee at the 50's cinema with songs like "Let there be peace on earth" or Taize/Berthier, sung in Esperanto.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    Charles

    Yes you have.

    I think you're way overthinking this.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    I think this sort of thing hasn't been thought about enough. Everybody wants to be the handshake. Biblical studies, liturgical studies--everybody wants to be the handshake that ushers in the new age. And you know what gets lost? Truth. Any concern for the truth. Because we're way too nice for that sort of thing.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    I think you're way overthinking this

    Well, Liam, I'm down with a killer cold, what else is there to do on a Sunday afternoon? No worries.
    What would become of us if we didn't present a loyal opposition to each other jes fer fun?
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    >...this site seems to have some good info, but be cautious...

    "NAB Study Bible, the Bible from Hell!"

    Now I dont feel as bad about using Burgess.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    Grandiosity does not serve the Truth well.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    How about a metrical Magnificat?
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Liam, honestly, I have no clue for whom or what the heck your last Yoda-like maxim was intended or means.
    Ironically, though, it has some ounce of resonance with something I've heard a number of times:
    "Truth? What is truth?"
    Darn, I thought I was difficult to comprehend...
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    C

    tis not at all about the music... just the truth.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Francis...
    We on da same page fo' a change. You din't notice?
    Doesn't anybody read anybody else's posts but their own anymore? I mean, like really read! God knows Flowerday's busted my chops over that....
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    sorry Charles... I figured you were... but your style of writing often times waxes poetic, and I don't catch it all the time.
Add a Comment