Translation of English Propers included in New Missals
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Has this been discussed/researched?

    Is there a single NEW translation of the propers in the new Roman Missal? I have the Magnificat translation in front of me.

    For Epiphany I have:

    Entrance Antiphon
    Arise, Jerusalem, and look to the East and see your children gathered from the rising to the setting of the sun.

    Communion Antiphon
    The brightness of God illumined the holy city Jerusalem, and the nations will walk by its light.

    For The Baptism of the Lord I have:

    Entrance Antiphon
    After the Lord was baptized, the heavens were opened, and the Spirit descended upon him like a dove, and the voice of the Father thundered: This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.

    Communion Antiphon
    Behold the One of whom John said: I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.

    Just curious if these are different than other publisher's translations.
  • Adam Schwend
    Posts: 203
    Another example of the baffling decision to have different antiphons in the Missal than in the Graduale...

    Here's what's in the Graduale:

    Epiphany Introit (Entrance Antiphon): Behold, the Sovereign Lord is coming; kingship, government and power are in his hands. Endow the King with your judgment, O God, and the King's son with your righteousness.

    Epiphany Communion: We have seen his star in the East, and we have come with our gifts, to worship the Lord.

    Baptism Introit: You have loved justice and hated iniquity; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your companions. My heart overflows with a goodly theme; I address my works to the King.

    Baptism Communion: As for all of you who have been baptised in Christ, you have put on Christ, alleluia.

    I understand the antiphons in the Missal are for "spoken Masses"....but why they didn't simply translate what was already there is beyond me....
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Thanks Adam. I am wondering what the process was to include translations of the Propers in all the different publisher's Third Edition (English) Missals. Can anyone shed light on this subject? JT? Anyone?
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2012/01/antiphons-in-roman-missal-vs-roman.html
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    JMO

    Interesting article, but I am trying to see a comparison of the translations between new english missals only... was that mentioned in that artcle? I might have missed it.
  • RobertRobert
    Posts: 343
    This initiative, which has secured the approval of the UK bishops, seems like a sensible step in the right direction:

    http://www.liturgyoffice.org.uk/Missal/Music/ProcessionalBook.pdf
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    Francis, my MTF Daily Roman Missal has the same antiphons as your Magnificat Missal.

    If I understand aright, these antiphons are official translations done as part of the same process as the rest of the Roman Missal 3rd Edition, involving ICEL, the bishops' conferences, Vox Clara, and CDWDS.

    The Epiphany antiphons you cited are for the Vigil Mass; there is another set for the Day.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    chonak

    yes. those propers were for the vigil.

    wow! would that mean they actually AGREED on a universal translation?????

    I'm still sticking to composing in the Latin nonetheless.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    Agreed? No. The Holy See made the final decision.

    But all those parties engaged in full, conscious, active participation in the process, and isn't that what counts, anyway? :-)
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    I believe the English translations of the Missal Propers are all the same for now (that is they're standard across all English-language Missals), and I believe I remember reading that for Biblical texts, they are derived from the Grail Psalms and the New American Bible. However, the CDW said that conferences of bishops were welcome to submit translations for approval that were based on the Biblical translations in liturgical use in their conference. I don't know if any conferences have done this.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    hmmm... would this then constitute an official translation from HMC of the Propers in the English language?
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    HMC?

    I assume the Missal Propers in the new Roman Missal (and as reproduced in the MTF Daily Roman Missal, Magnificat, etc.) are official translations.

    When the Latin of the propers in the 2002 Missale Romanum corresponds directly to the the Latin in the Graduale, I've been using the translation from the Roman Missal for our congregation.

    P.S. It was my understanding that the Missal Propers in the previous Sacramentary were also official translations of those in the 1970 Missale Romanum - although those Propers have been refined and adjusted in following Latin editions of the Missale Romanum - interestingly sometimes adding an additional option which happens to be the Graduale proper!
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