Sung Universal Prayer - Book Complete
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    edit: Hey everyone, head on down to the last post for info on this book. It's now finished. (Click here)

    Hey y'all:
    I'm considering putting together a lulu book with the sung settings of the forumulas for the Universal Prayer found in appendix V of the Missal, on pp. 1462. I plan to include:
    -Fully notated (not just pointed) versions of all the forumlas
    -The musical forumlas from the missal to use with your own self-pointed text
    -The orations of the priest also pointed out, to the simple and solemn tones

    Here's a couple questions I have about it all that I need a second opinion on:
    -Fully notated, or pointed text? I'm leaning towards fully notated.
    -Neumes or modern stemless notation? I'd think for something like this, MN would have a more general appeal, especially if it sells beyond this board. But maybe I could do it both ways. One edition with MN, one with neumes
    -(A big one:) Which tone should I use, or should I use them all, or should I rotate depending on the time of year? Or should I notate all of them according to each tone, effectively printing the actual texts 4 times? What is the best way to do this?

    Here's what I have so far, using Tone C (editorial notes in yellow) Ideas? Thoughts? Discussions? Other things to put in?
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    and I guess you might want the attachment I promised.
    152K
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Also, any recommendations on my typesetting, either of the music or text, or overall layout, or font sizes, or music size, or anything would be great.
  • I would put slurs on the melismas.

    Also, could you set the opening by the priest to music as well? That would be nice.

    Very good–looking typesetting. Good job.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Hmmm.... I might just end up setting it in Scribus, which is much more powerful for typesetting than MS Word. But... my normal font, palatino, doesn't work in it for some weird reason. Anyone have any recommendations of other good, free, "liturgical book" type fonts that would work well for this project?
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Ben, your work is looking beautiful ! Keep it up!
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Hmm... I'm not sure what music to set the opening prayer to. It's not really a "presidential prayer"...any ideas or contributions of music to use there? The first idea that comes to my mind is an adaptation of the melody used for "Let us offer each other the sign of peace." It would seem to fit well there.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    image
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,177
    Here's sample output from Lilypond in Palatino font:
    image
    source file
    I think Bitstream Charter font looks good too.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Latest progress. Comments on anything and everything concerning the looks and content of this PDF would be greatly appreciated. BTW, I've switched over to Scribus now, so the text is close enough to the music, and I have a ton more power too, which is really cool once you figure out how to use it.

    If you see anything out of place or looks weird or non-standard, speak up. I want to know!
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,177
    1) I think it's more conventional to use a breve note for the reciting tone instead of using a whole note. (Cf. my sample above.)

    2) This is an early draft, so I'm sure you'll check things: at the moment, the alignment of notes and text is inconsistent. (E.g., compare verses 1, 2, 3, 4)

    3) In the title page: music typesetting is called "engraving", so you can credit yourself with "music engraving by ..."

    4) The margins look a little on the small side. A book for liturgical use should not try to be too efficient about the use of space.

    5) On syllables with two notes, ties would be a good thing.

    6) I hope you're not modeling your engraving on ICEL's work: it looks very non-standard to me. (Can anyone comment on that?)

    7) The header "Priest's prayer..." should be indented like the previous headers. Some vertical space would also help to separate the sections of the prayer. (Question: Does the original source call it the "priest's prayer"? That's unusual terminology.)

    8) At "General Formula II", start a new page for the next set.

    9) "en-tire" has two syllables. The second has a diphthong, but that doesn't make it three syllables.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Thank you, Chonak!!! Latest doc attached.

    1) Hmmm... The meinrad font doesn't have those, unless I'm missing something.
    2) Yes, I'm aware they are out of line with each other. I'll be fixing those once I finish just getting everything in the document. As you said, this is just a draft.
    3) Thanks!
    4) Hmm...
    5) Hmmm... Meinrad also doesn't do ties or slurs, afaik
    6) I guess I should say I was, for constancy across the various books, especially for priests who are starting to sing more of their parts. Not to mention I like it...I'm thinking about also making a neume edition, which shouldn't be to much more work once I finish this.
    7a) Whoops! Thanks for the catch!
    7b) Yes, the missal (pp 1461) actually calls it the "Priest's prayer". I tried to keep the same headings and layout, just adding music. Anyone have a better name?
    8) I assume I should do this with all of the new sections?
    9) What page are you finding this on?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,177
    (4) Now that I've printed a sample page, the margins look OK to me.
    (5) With Meinrad? Oy. I thought you were using Musescore or some other software.
    (7) Thanks for checking; if p. 1461 calls it "Priest's prayer", that's fine with me.
    (8) Yes, I think starting each set on a new page will reduce page-turning for the readers.
    (9) The priest's intro to General Formula II contains the word "entire", hyphenated on p.6 as "en-ti-re".

    And more:
    (10) Page 3, middle: "care" should probably be a dark note (quarter note) instead of a whole note.
    (11) When a phrase on the reciting note causes a line break (e.g., first and second staves on p.3), it would be good to omit the closing bar on the staff.
    (12) p. 5, third system, "de-vo-tion" probably doesn't need hyphens.
    (13) A little vertical space above "Priest's Introduction" would look good.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    5) I seriously considered musescore over the font method, but their methods for entering more than one word on a note are sometimes difficult, and it's often difficult to manage the notes when there gets to be many words under one single note. But if it were something with less reciting notes, I would have used it without a second thought for this big of a project.
    8) I'll be doing that from now on. Thanks for the tip!
    9) See that now. Thanks.
    10) Wouldn't it stay on the reciting note? Or would it be better to do a quarter note since it's the only word there on the reciting note?
    11) Are you saying that many of the staffs should be open ended, without a bar line on the end? edit: I checked, and I guess that's what the missal does. I'll do that in my next update.
    12) Hmm... don't know why I did that. I must have had a flex or something there, then took it out.
    13) Yes, good idea.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,177
    (5) Lilypond embedded in Scribus is also a possibility.
  • Ben:

    I have to confess, I'm having a bit of trouble envisioning this book as being sufficiently useful thus far as to justify anyone's actually wanting to purchase a hard copy. I simply have never been to any church where they would want to limit themselves to the example intentions that are given in the Missal, still less to do so often enough that it would make sense to buy a whole book about it. So I would suggest both of the following:

    1. Offer concrete guidelines for how to set new invocations to the same tones. Where should the flex and mediant be? When do you start the ending cadence? Assume that the people who will be reading this are not familiar with terms such as "flex" and "pointing."

    2. Write a bunch of intentions (or find them somewhere, keeping copyright in mind), and set them to the same tones. Divvy them up either according to the four-part schema given in the GIRM (for the needs of the Church; for public authorities and the salvation of the whole world; for those burdened by any kind of difficulty; for the local community), or according to some other topical arrangement that makes sense. It will, naturally, be important not to focus on your own agenda by limiting the resource to only intentions that you think people should be offering ("For a restoration of altar rails, let us pray to the Lord" ;-), but rather to include a wide range of things that other people might want: for vocations, for the jobless, for the homeless, for immigrants, for an election, for a child(ren) baptized at this Mass, for the candidates and catechumens, for people affected by a natural disaster, for addicts, etc., etc.

    If all that sounds like a lot of work, well, it probably would be. As I said, I'm just not sure I foresee much in the way of widespread or long-term usefulness for a resource on the Prayers of the Faithful that is limited to what is given in the Missal.

    Three final points: (1) in the simple tone Priest's Prayer, the Amen should be on C, not B; (2) please put the Table of Contents before any preface and introduction; (3) given your otherwise strict fidelity to the texts set forth in the Missal, is there any reason you have ignored the responses for each formulary that the Missal provides? In General Formula I, for instance, it is "Grant this, Almighty God," where instead you give "Lord, have mercy" or "Lord, hear our prayer."
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Chonak,
    I saw that in the scribus menus, and thanks for reminding me, but I'm just not ready for lillypond. I know I'll have to make that jump sooner or later. If it's anything like the jump to gabc over the meinrad fonts, it'll probably be well worth it, but as of now, I'm just not ready.

    Mark,
    Well since I'm not up to that, I so guess I'll have to just leave it as it is. Sounds like a great project, but it's simply not something I'm up to at this time.
    1)whoops, thanks for the catch
    2) thanks again
    3) Well, I decided just to use option c for a couple reasons, the biggest of them being the lack of music in the missal for the other invocations, such as "Grant this, Almighty God."
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Ok, here's my latest draft, with the appendix being on PDF page no. 52 (book page 42).

    Any ideas for other content to go in the appendix? Right now I have both creeds, and simple instructions on how to point new petitions to the tone.

    As usual, any layout tips or other tips are greatly appreciated, particularly in the table of contents, which I just finished updating.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Duh....I should try attaching the PDF this time. My smarts were really on display there.

    One more question: do you like how I handled the alternate intention on page 48? Is there a better way you see? I wanted to visually delineate it, so that's what I came up with.
    453K
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,177
    I recommend to indent both options and add a suitable header above the first one as well:

    e.g., "For a lay member of the faithful or a non-ordained religious:"

    Otherwise the reader's tendency will be to proceed through the first option for (4b) and then be surprised by the second option. It might be good to start a new page before the first option of (4b).
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    oke dokey. I think it's close to being finished. I've went through and corrected a few wayward collects, and fixed the note alignment problems that were all over the place, as well as creating the copyright page.

    I also added a note on page 13 (the first page of intentions) about only singing 4 intentions when there's different options (intention 1, 2a, 2b, 3, 4a, 4b, 4c).

    And finally, there's a few blank pages at the end if you think of anything else handy to put in the appendix.

    Let me know what you think with this latest draft.
    476K
  • A few general and specific remarks:

    1. Margins are too small in the introductory text.

    2. Proofread, proofread, proofread. A few things I noticed:
    a. Correct straight quote (tick mark) to curly quote in the ToC, "Apostles' Creed"; same on p. 54; also throughout the "How to Apply New Texts" section.
    b. On pp. vii and viii, the abbreviation for "page" should be "p.," not "pp." If you mean "on page 1416 and the following," then the abbreviation is "pp. 1416 et seq." or "pp. 1416ff." More importantly, since not all missals are paginated identically, this is not a sufficient reference to identify the source.
    c. On p. viii, you have "reverenence" instead of "reverence."
    d. On p. 4, you are missing the word "us" in "that the Lord may graciously receive us as a sacrifice."
    e. Wherever you have numerical spans -- for instance at the bottom of p. vi, "nos. 69-71," and the top of p. 30, "nos. 1-2" -- the hyphen should be replaced with an en dash.
    3. Do not underline urls (p. viii). This looks like you exported it directly from MSWord. If you can't click on it, it should not be underlined.

    4. Make sure that you avoid page turns in the middle of a phrase, such as on pp. 15-16, "that what is given in time may {turn page} become a reward in eternity," pp. 19-20, "turn to you with all their heart, so {turn page} that whatever they dare to ask...", pp. 25-26, et alibi.

    5. If you are not printing the name placeholder "N." in red, I think it is customary (and easier to read) to put it in italics.

    6. I would move the section on pointing texts to the introduction, and eliminate the two creeds as non-germane to the book (this would leave you with no need for an appendix).

    7. You need to go back through the entire thing and add flexes and mediants in appropriate places. As it stands, you have things like "let our prayer to the Lord be all the more insistent, that all of us, and the whole multitude of the baptized, together with the entire world, may come to share more abundantly in this" and "-selves gathered here, that, as God does not cease to sustain us with the things of this life, we may know how to use them in such a way that we may hold even now to the things that endure for ev-" all set to a neverending reciting tone. I cannot imagine that this is very conducive to graceful recitation, nor to comprehension of the text. (This will also give you something more interesting to talk about in the introduction to pointing texts.)

    8. Speaking of which, I did not find the tone of voice of the "How to Apply New Texts" section to be quite fitting. For one thing, I would change the title to "Applying the Intercession Tone to New Texts." For another, colloquialisms like "come in handy" and sentence fragments like "Which would then be sung as such" (an ungrammatical use of the word "such," too) should be reworked.

    9. For the Preface, a few comments:
    a. "Two-fold" should be "twofold." Also, it is confusing to have a "firstly" but no "secondly." Not until I get to the end of the sentence do I realize that I should have interpreted the "but also" as introducing the second purpose.
    b. You should not begin three consecutive paragraphs with "I".
    c. Where you mention Bp. Morlino, you have "importance" twice in a row. At least one of these (preferably both, as "important" is one of the most overused adjectives in English, along with "interesting") should be replaced with something more meaningful.
    d. "Assist you bring" is not grammatical. "God Bless you" has one capital too many.

    Hope these remarks are helpful. Best of luck to you, Ben --
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Hardcover | Spiral Bound

    This is now complete and ready to buy. Thank you for all the help, Richard and Mark.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    One more question. Would anyone go for a neume edition? I could get one out without too much work if someone wanted it.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Ok, one last question. Is anyone interested in doing a final complete proofread of this? I know it's already up, but if anyone could take one last look to catch any final mistakes, that'd be great. Please PM me if you're taking.

    Btw, for convenience, the table of contents is now links that will jump you around in the file.