How old is the Roman Canon that we still use? (in OF and EF)
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Eucharistic Prayer No. 1 (Roman Canon)

    Click Here to see some great MSS.

    image
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    Fantastic! (Why the background music, though, as Bp. Gracida prayed the Roman Canon? Was that for effect?)

    Edit: Let me hasten to add my thanks for this wonderful new series!
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    Also, the image is attributed to "St. Gallen (AF, 119)." Do you know how old that particular manuscript is? And for those of us who aren't familiar with this nomenclature, what does the "(AF, 119)" mean?
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    Dear Mark,

    I think the St. Gallen was made around 8th century, but nobody really knows. It is slightly more "recent" than the copy in the Vatican Library.

    Also, that is not background music: Bishop Gracida was praying at the altar (1962 Missal) and a special microphone was pinned to his Grace's vestment. That is the reason his Grace is praying the Canon at the same time the choir is singing the Sanctus/Benedictus.
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    Jeff, thank you for posting this series. One of the reasons I love chant, besides the music, is that I find the notation so beautiful. These old manuscripts are works of art themselves.
  • Mark M.Mark M.
    Posts: 632
    Ah, I see. (I'm not quite as familiar with the Extraordinary Form.) Thanks, Jeff!
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    JMO, I always thought that the phrase "His Grace" was reserved for archbishops (not that I have a problem with it), and that bishops are properly called "His Excellency."
  • Ioannes Andreades
    Posts: 310
    I went to the following URL: http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/list/one/csg/0348

    The manuscript overview included the following

    Location: St. Gallen
    Library / Collection: Stiftsbibliothek
    Shelfmark: Cod. Sang. 348
    Manuscript title: Gelasian Remedius-Sacramentary
    Caption: Parchment · 376 pp. · 23 x 14.5 cm · Chur · about 800
    Manuscript summary: The incomplete Gelasian Remedius-Sacramentary, composed in Chur in about 800, at the time of the Chur Bishop Remedius, one of the most important liturgical texts from that time, containing the prayers used by bishops or priests during the Mass and administration of the sacraments, at the same time also one of the masterpieces of Retro romansh scribal culture in the Carolingian age, decorated with numerous fantastic initial capitals, still influenced by Irish models. Verifiably present in the monastery of St. Gall by about 850. (smu)
    DOI (Digital Object Identifier): 10.5076/e-codices-csg-0348
    Permanent URL: http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/list/one/csg/0348


    The text of the Canon begins on page 368, toward the end of the manuscript. As the manuscript itself mentions Remedius, we have a much better idea of where and when this manuscript was written compared with many other Carolingian manuscripts.

    I have no idea what AF 119 means.
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    1. Hello! And God bless!

    2. DougS, I have been told by Bishops that it is normal to do this, for what it's worth, but I am not an expert on this.

    3. "AF" should be explained at the bottom of each entry.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    I am curious to be informed -
    I have never heard the address 'your Grace' being used in the Catholic Church. It is the common usage in reference to Anglican bishops, though. I have been told on several ocassions that 'excellency' applied both to bishops and archbishops. Is there a more authoritative voice here?
  • DougS
    Posts: 793
    Based on some casual scanning of the internet it seems that "Your/His Grace" is typically used for Catholic Archbishops in Commonwealth nations (and perhaps Anglicans use it, too). In the United States "Your/His Excellency" is commonly used for bishops and archbishops.

    I looked this up once in the Chicago Manual of Style, but it was for a formal letter I wrote to our bishop, whom I addressed as "His Excellency Bishop X" and "Dear Your Excellency:" I can't remember if CMS gave a style point for archbishops and my copy is in my office at work.

    The public domain Catholic Encyclopedia makes a fair point:

    "Even, however, with these explanations, which might have been developed at greater length, some difficulty may occasionally occur, in which case it is better to make a free use of titles of respect, rather than to run the risk of not using enough, and of thus falling short of what is due and fitting."
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    Adoremus has a web page with the forms of address as used in the US.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    From chonak's link:

    When concluding a letter to the Pope:
    I am, Your Holiness, most respectfully yours in Christ,



    Don't forget the comma!

    I am Your Holiness, most respectfully yours in Christ,


    just wouldn't do at all.
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