Applicability of New Translation beyond the Mass
  • Pedro d'Aquino
    Posts: 128
    To what extent will the translations of the Missal applicable outside the celebration of Mass? Since some of the texts are common to the Office and celebration of the Sacraments and other rites of the Church, should the use of those texts conform to the new translations? I am thinking specifically of the orations in the Liturgy of the Hours, the common responses (e.g. Et cum spiritu tuo) and the Solemn Blessings and Prayers over the People. There is also the Litany of Saints at the Easter Vigil. I find it hard to imagine that people will say "And with your spirit" at Mass but "And also with you" at baptisms, weddings, funerals, etc.

    I know that the other rites will eventually be re-translated to conform to the mandate of Liturgiam authenticam, but the question remains: what do we do in the meantime?
  • Aristotle EsguerraAristotle Esguerra
    Posts: 1,185
    This is a question I would like to have answered as well, as the Liturgy of the Hours sung in English is on its way to becoming a fixture in our parish life.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,942
    Actually, a lot of people who come to ritual liturgies do not necessarily come to Sunday Masses, so they will not necessarily chime in to reflect the new Missal.

    I think you do nothing. People will respond as they will. Correcting them when the texts have not yet been officially changed is a bit presumptuous, especially in the context of ritual liturgies for liminal moments, where verbal liturgical catechesis is likely to be received less than well.

    It won't be tidy. That's OK. Get past the need for tidy in these contexts.
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    This is what Legionary of Christ Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum university, has to say bout using the new translation in the Breviary and other Rites.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    Along these lines, with reference to the Liturgy of the Hours - since the Revised Grail Psalms were given approval for use in "all future liturgical books" or with some such language, I assume it might be possible to also begin using those - optionally - in the celebration of the Liturgy of the Hours. However, it would be prudent to first take note of which verses are to be included - as Psalms are not always in the LotH in their entirety.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Yes. I also wonder about this. For example, it might be quite easy to use the RGP in one-off situations where a custom program is made, like the vespers celebrations that occasionally happen in my diocese. Yes, people will respond as they will, but what do you print in the program?

    Obviously we know the answer to places in the breviary making a reference to "a blessing like at Mass" or whatever it says.

    But what about other places, such as the other ritual books?

    My solution (which is by no means official) would be to simply use the old translation (duh, there's nothing else to use), unless a specific text has already been re-translated with the missal, such as many of the LOTH collects, and some responses, like et cum spiritu tuo. But idk, even though you'd still be using an approved text, in the strictest sense, it probably wouldn't be licit...
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Oh, by the way, in case anyone is wondering, I emailed the ICEL a while ago, and they said the new breviary is at least 5 years away, in case any of you think this will be a very short lived problem.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    The RGP has already been used in an edition of the LOTH for Africa, published by the Daughters of St. Paul.
  • drforjc
    Posts: 38
    "the new breviary is at least 5 years away"

    I think, though, that once they do get rolling it will not be too long of a process. The RGP is done and approved, and many of the collects come from the Mass, which is also approved. The readings in the OOR likely won't change, so it seems the main things left would be the preces, the dialogue in the Ordinary, responsories, some of the collects that don't come from the mass, and some of the antiphons. Maybe the Gospel Canticles and Te Deum. All in all, though, with the Psalter done the "heavy lifting" is well on its way.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    That's what I thought too, but I specifically brought these things up, and they still answered as they did. But if you ask me, 5 years is pretty long for a work that is close to finished before it was even started.
  • Joseph MendesJoseph Mendes
    Posts: 99
    Maybe there are other revisions in the works for the Latin, and they're waiting for that to be done before they do anything.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    At the Colloquium, the secretary of ICEL indicated that new translations of the various Rites (marriage, funerals, etc.) are coming before the breviary.

    Changes to the Latin of the LOTH aren't likely, since that was already done in 1985; that edition has not been rendered in English yet.
  • benedictgal
    Posts: 798
    Archbishop Aymond just told the USCCB that "And with your spirit" will also apply to rituals outside of the Mass.
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