what im doing irish tenor is explaining that we're using the sacrementary chants precisely because as boring and formulaic (their terms) as they are they do so precisely to emphesise the text and so act as a necessary aid to learning and proclaiming the new text. i also hold out the promise of a 4 part accompanied setting to replace creation. (our diocese has happily recommended the mass of wisdom by jAnco) i explain that we can go any direction AFTER we learn the text THROUGH THE SACRIMENTARY CHANTS !~!!! (sneaky no?)

I don’t know if you’re an OCP parish, but if you can, go into the meeting with two Breaking Bread/Music Issue 2012 hymnals.

“Father,
• If you’ll notice, the very first pages of the OCP worship aide contains not only the ICEL Mass Ordinary settings, but also the Missal chants and responses assigned to the celebrant and the congregation. As OCP has never presented any Mass setting, whether the Heritage Mass or the Celtic Mass, in such a manner, we have to consider that by placing virtually the entire musical orations of the Mass for everyone within the first section of the hymnal, OCP is responding to a very clear mandate given them and all other publishers that not only the ICEL Ordinary is of principal concern, but that it also is in concert with all of our Church’s legislation, our Holy Father’s expressed will, and the acknowledgement of the U.S. Bishops to support and emphasize that all the Faithful realize that we “sing THE Mass” rather than “sing at the Mass.” I know that there may be various challenges to fulfilling this mandate, and that not all celebrants or our congregations can always be afforded the opportunity to fulfill the fully-sung Mass, but it is unambiguously clear that this ICEL setting, as crafted by some of our finest English chant and liturgical experts, provide our congregations with both a user-friendly and supremely Catholic musical medium to enter the world of chant that has sustained our Church for a millennium.
• These missal chants, Father, represent also two supreme aspects of our faith tradition: discipline of self to a higher authority and the humility that Christ himself taught as being necessary for any soul to “take up his cross and follow Him.” The Latin legislative documents affording the medium of chant the principal place for musical forms of worship have been endorsed not only by the U.S. bishop’s decrees regarding the publishing of this ICEL setting, but also by the most recent advisory document regarding the role of chant in American liturgical practice, “Sing to the Lord.”
• Father, we do not envision this particular chant setting to be the “Be all, End all” of all future settings of the Mass that our parish will take up in song. But this particular Mass has a clear place setting at the table of song in all U.S. parishes and cathedrals. To ignore or dismiss that reality is to contravene both the call to personal discipline and humility, but also to undermine willfully the very ecclesial structure upon which our Church was founded. This setting is, for English congregations, a universal setting appropriate for extra-parish gatherings, or Episcopal Masses in our parish or deanery. There are many resources of accompaniments that can adorn its chanting, or it will bear unaccompanied chanting under our informed direction, which is the highest form of praise we humans can offer God, the Word and voice united.
• Father, there are many, many worthy new and revised Mass settings of which I fully intend to introduce to our musical leadership and to the parish at large as we become thoroughly familiar with the congregational responses of the third edition of the English Missal, and I will do so systematically and with enthusiasm. But consider this ICEL chant setting within this context: the Church is clearly asking of all of us to discern whether all of these new settings meet a clear criterium: does this music sound “sacred?” Does this setting only invoke with hearts, minds and souls of our congregations the clear, unequivocal expression of worship, and not association with other musical styles evocative of the secular popular forms such as the musical theater, the ballads of human emotions such as found in popular song (and in the madrigals of old) or the banal, utilitarian constructs that are the hallmark of the modern styles of both of mall and elevator muszak and the incessant drones of disco and house music. Our congregations must instinctively know upon first hearing that this music is only found serving the worship of almighty God. As elegantly simple this ICEL setting may appear to trained musicians, it will gain a very important foothold among those who accept both its import and its well-crafted presentation and “performance.” By accepting its call to discipleship, it also affords us gateways to even greater artistic expressions that are also intend for sacral use.

That’s about all I got for you now. Godspeed with your interview. In my four parish cluster, we’ve mandated the ICEL to a once per month (last Sunday) pervasive usage. What I’ve said above I have, in so many other words, offered to my own clerics as raison d’etres for its inclusion into the parish repertoire.

Noel,
Leave it to you to not only ignore diplomacy and realpolitik, but to come out of the gate challenging the premise of hierarchy and advise this colleague to "define" ministerial functions to a 70 year old pastor !
And you wonder "Why?"
This colleague needs help, not entrenched ideals.
Love you too.
C

I tend to ignore comments that require a dictionary.

There are those that prefer to just get along and that's a choice...

Noel, this'll be short and sweet.
If you, as you say, ignore comments that require a dictionary (Really?) then I'd suggest you don't respond to them with undisguised sarcasm. "Raisins?" Please.

Seriously, and without sarcasm, I have to admit have no idea what "offered to my own clerics as raison d’etres" means.

We had the meeting today, and he's pretty upset about the whole idea of the new translation and these chants. He wants it changed, and quickly.

What do you think of this response?

Dear Fr. X,

Here's where I'm coming from on using this particular setting of the Mass ordinary:

While they may be formulaic (and maybe even a little *boring*), that makes these pieces quite easy to learn melodically. That allows the congregation to focus on the text without worrying much about what the next note is, because it follows the pattern. If they can focus on the text, that makes it easier for them to learn it. Using these new texts will be a challenge for me, and all the other Catholics who have had their prayers memorized for ages. If the music can make it easier to use the new words, then that's a positive.

I do not envision this particular chant setting to be the “be all, end all” of all future settings of the Mass that our parish will take up in song. But this particular Mass has a clear place setting at the table of song in all U.S. parishes and cathedrals. This setting is, for English congregations, a universal setting appropriate for extra-parish gatherings, or episcopal Masses within our parish. Every publisher has been ordered to give this setting pride of place in their new hymnals and worship aids, the first time the bishops have ever made such a proclamation. Since it's never been done before, I feel like it is significant. Whether or not a liturgy commission made up of Fr. X and X would have done the same thing (I suspect we would not!), I don't think they did this lightly.

I won't pretend that this isn't partly due to cost. The implementation of this particular setting, the pew cards with it printed on them, copies for the children and adults, organ music, etc. totally costs around $100. That's almost entirely for the pew cards. This setting, given to the Church by the bishops, is the one setting that is available to every English-speaking parish, whether or not they can afford to buy printed music. Not that we should do things just because "everyone else is doing it", but I believe it is going to be used fairly widely (at least at first), and there are several (arch)dioceses across the country which have mandated that each parish use this, and only this, setting of the Mass ordinary until the First Sunday of Advent 2012.

I have said explicitly to the people on more than one occasion that this is the music that we are going to be using up to Christmas this year. Pastorally, I really feel like we need to stick it out at least that long, and keep to what we (read: I) said. Regardless of our level of (dis-)satisfaction with the new emphasis on formal equivalence as opposed to dynamic equivalence, I don't think it would make a good impression to change it right away. I think it would imply that we aren't (or weren't) fully behind what we've been doing. Furthermore, I think asking them to learn another setting right away would be a bit of a tall order, especially considering all the effort I've put in to teaching them this one. After Christmas, I have made no promises to anyone about what we'll be using, so I think that would be a perfect time to switch.

Something else that I considered before choosing this setting is: Does it sound "sacred"? Moreover, does it not sound secular? I feel that it is important that the music we use is worthy of a seat at the table during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass--that it is exceedingly well-suited to worship of the Almighty, Triune God. Forgive me for sounding like a *liturgist*, but I'm also trying to abide by the letter and spirit of Vatican II, specifically Sacrosanctum Concilium:

The Church acknowledges Gregorian chant as specially suited to the Roman liturgy: therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services. But other kinds of sacred music, especially polyphony, are by no means excluded from liturgical celebrations, so long as they accord with the spirit of the liturgical action...

I thought that this would be the easiest way to use chant in the liturgy, as it wouldn't supplant congregational hymnody (nor do I want it to!), and it has been translated into English, the vernacular of our people. I don't want them to sing things they don't understand, and (as I'm sure you know) many people, perhaps due to the tense period around the time of Vatican II, have quite an aversion to the use of Latin. I'm starting, little-by-little, to introduce Latin-language polyphony and chant to the choir, and they're on board.

That said, and as you said earlier, there are many other "chant" Masses. I would be glad to sift through them and find one that is more to your liking. It might take some time, but I'd be glad to do it. I might have to make an engraving in modern notation and adapt it to English, which would take more time, but I could get that accomplished. Perhaps I could do it while we learn my Mass setting after Christmas?

I'm sorry this hasn't worked out exactly the way you want it to, but I'm committed to making things work well.

Godspeed, Irish Tenor,
Scots Tenor
C

FNJ,

I think it is largely fueled by discussions he has had with other priests in the area who are around his age. I think these sessions are largely spent complaining about the new translation and the curia in general.

He seems to have a visceral, angry reaction to the fact that some of the ICEL chants quote from the old Requiem Mass. He feels like it discourages joy, and doesn't sound much like "an unending hymn of praise".

--------

As many folks who frequent this site have much more experience in chant than I do, can anyone recommend a more "joyful" Mass setting that is chant-based? If I have to change the setting, I'd still like to use some type of chant if possible. What's the most "joyous" one you can think of? Are there any "joyful" ones which are newly-composed, or have been adapted for English?

Thanks to everyone :)

Our most joyful English setting is the Meinrad Kyriale Mass XI Orbis Factor (revised).
Expressing joyfulness with the mode iv ICEL Gloria with its "Te Deum" cadences, or with the Orbis Factor is far easier than with MofC.
A cappella singing at a good clip will disassociate these chants from the minor scales and deflect any inference that these joyful modes CARRY mournful or grave melodic texture. the Lee Chanted Gloria must have a reivision; this might be a better place to start.
We have been mandated by the diocese to learn the Mass of St. Paul ocp.

Well, if you want to assess an alternative chant-like Ordinary setting for joyfulness, try this: http://www.aliummusic.com/mass.html

There are editions for organist, choir and congregation.

Best wishes from an English tenor (with Welsh antecedents).