Singing them as Anglican Chant would not require taking liberties.

I prolly should spell out what I mean by my Tietze yet not Tietze proposal. Here is an introit-like thingie. Looking ahead to this Sunday, what if a congregation that is used to singing a hymn sang at the entrance something like this to I dunno, St. Thomas (Williams):

Let every heart rejoice
That searches for the Lord.
O seek the Lord, O seek His strength,
O seek the face of God.

And then the congregation watches the procession, making Dr. Mahrt happy, whilst the ladies of the choir sing the first verse of the Psalm, to a Psalmtone that (here's the tricky part) somehow matches St. Thomas (Williams).

The antiphon-ish thingie repeats. Same verse, of course. There's only one verse because, although it's a hymn tune, it's secretly an antiphon.

The men of the choir sing a verse of the Psalm.

The antiphon-ish thingie.

Etc., until the incense stops swinging and the procession has run its course.

up with every single effort to set the propers!

the parvum might eventually come out. I want to print the American Gradual. there is so much to do. We have half a century of wasted time to make up for!

Kathy, have you seen the various propers set by Lynn Trapp and Delores Dufner (sp?) over at GIA? Uses a very similar formula to what you proposed . . .

One composers' 2¢:
I'm working at a Propers project (that's all I'm saying until it's farther along). But it's in Latin, because that's what has permanence, and those are the folks who believe in Propers. Would I be averse to doing choral English Propers? No; for the right price and terms I'll do just about anything moral. Is there "a need" for such things? Oh, probably not; the Mass has its own music, and there wasn't a "need" for the Missa cuisvis toni, Missa Papae Marcelli, the Mass of Creation, or any number of other works. But the church has traditionally supported art. And we never really know what was needed until we see what's been used. The Rossini Propers were needed. The SEP were needed. But ultimately, in the eyes of history, we're all writing on spec.

Yes, Paul, good bump.
And I've been remiss not to post a review of a VERY interesting and worthy project by Ken Macek and Paul Tate (GIA) inwhich the Introits of Advent/Christmas/Epiphany are solidly set, and as they are repeated, sequentially adorned through various methods without obscuring the principal melody and text of the antiphon. Adam, you should really check this out at GIA. Anyone who has a comprehensive music program with ensemble or contemporary LifeTeen could benefit by this project.
And no, I was not compensated for this endorsement. Ken's an old NPM internet bud, and exemplifies a truly studied and progressive integrity in his parish work at ATL's cathedral and as a "modern" composer.

Ken sent me a set of CDs and scores for the Introit projects a couple months ago.
I have also been remiss in reviewing them (along with the stack of Mass Settings I have been sent... oh, the price of fame! :) )

Adam, depends on what you consider contemporary. You could do something like this (http://www.modernpsalter.com/songs), but (regardless of personal intent, which I'm sure is genuine) are you then rendering to Caesar or to God? It's so far removed from the tradition, I don't know.

Bruce-
I know you don't agree, but I think that modernpsalter project is awesome.

Here's the entire Trapp/Dufner collection, thus far (called the "Corpus Christi" series):

GIA search result

And this is random . . . found some English propers (English chant adapted from the Gregorian) by a Lutheran pastor:

Propers



May be more on that site . . .

Yes, I'm more and more for the view that all propers projects are good. As with the old "hymn wars," we can have the "propers wars" in 10 years :)

Count me among those who view all propers projects as worthy.

"Stylistic compromise, substantial integrity?" (2005)
Prima Pars
Secunda Pars

Is it obnoxious in heaven, what with all that "Holy, holy, holy Lord....Hosanna in the highest" stuff constantly looping?
;-)

Some might disagree, but I think there is wisdom in the use of the Graduale Simplex for smaller parishes where music resources are limited. A contemporary/hymn tune setting of the Simplex could be very useful. As a point of demonstration, I took the text of the Mass I Ordinary Time Communion Antiphon/Psalm from By Flowing Waters and adapted it to the hymn tune Stuttgart. My apologies to Dr.Ford, but as mentioned,this is purely for demonstration purposes and hopefully someone with much better capabilities will take up the challenge!

Ok, ok. Where does one find the official antiphons?

Adam, looks great!

A couple of comments:

1. For this purpose it really comes in handy that A-B-C-B is an acceptable rhyme scheme in hymnody.
2. This isn't a familiar tune for me, maybe relatively unknown in RC circles?
3. I still think the active voice would be preferable in the first line.

Not to get too off topic, but BRESLAU is a common tune for "Take Up Your Cross," in those strange hymnals that haven't set it to ERHALT UNS HERR. I'm looking at you, Collegeville Hymnal, with your bizarre assignations of common hymn texts to uncommon tunes ("On Jordan's Bank" to anything other than WINCHESTER NEW? Really?). I don't think enough people would know it to get confused by it, though.

I found it in 6/4, but changed it to 6/8 here.
My opinion is that 6/4 is a time-signature that causes bad organists to play too slowly.
(I suspect it has something to do with the way Americans are taught about rhythm and time signatures.)

I try to avoid the near occasion of dragging.

Adam, sorry, forgot I posted in here. I apologize if I've posted modernpsalter before in a negative fashion...once is enough! I just don't think that style respects the text of the Psalms. I know Charles has before promoted Janet Sullivan Whitaker's stuff on here, and I'd vote for her work, too. That style is okay, I think, even if not my preference.

Also, regarding 6/4: if you tell the organist to think of it in three, that should help, right? I hope? I'm thinking of LAND OF REST, which always seems to have a nice lilt.

Hi guys, I have an unusual question, which is a bit off topic.

Does any body know if Missa Deus Genitor alme is in a particular mode?
The Liber does not have a mode listed against this Mass.

Thanks in advance if anybody can answer.

Jeremy

Great points!

This might be a little modern-culture ego centric at first (bear with me), but...
I'm starting to think that "What does the Church need from composers?" is the wrong approach for most composers.
The two more pertinent questions are:
-What does my local parish need?
-What do I need to write?

Here's why:
As JQ (and others) pointed out- the Church doesn't NEED any more music.
There is chant, which should be enough.
If that isn't enough, there is an amazing body of Renaissance polyphony.
If that isn't enough, there is tons of really great metrical hymns (texts and tunes) in a variety of styles.
If that isn't enough, there is a great deal of folk, contemporary, rock, pop, klezmer, polka, bluegrass, Gospel, hip-hop music....

For a thousand years or more, there has been enough music.
So now, there must REALLY be enough music.

But...

Those of us in parish jobs will continuously find some specific need (OMG, I need something for this feast day, and I only have two altos and a clarinet player!).
We will write, arrange, compose, decompose, etc.
Those of us doing so should share our music with others (free or commercially- that's up to you), because someone else might find it useful or edifying.

Beyond that- we should compose because we are moved to do so by God.
The output of that prayerful-creation may OR MAY NOT be useful.helpful to any other musicians or to the Church generally.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't compose that piece or write that text.

I've written a number of songs that I know should never see the light of day. They were gifted to me by God- but not for use as music for anyone else, but for my own prayer.
I have sat at a piano and strummed out the most embarrassingly simple, pop-infused chord riff and belted out Psalm after Psalm.
That doesn't mean anyone else in the world should be inflicted with "A Four-Chord Psalter: Devotions for the Emotions."

On the other hand, a piece of music or a text, or the ability to create them, might be gifted to us by God, for the benefit of others.
In which case it would be a shame for us to not share it- out of false humility, or laziness, or for any other reason (light... bushel).
(Even worse, and I am very guilty, is not even writing the thing or doing the work. Like burying the talents...)

Like all things- this takes discernment and judgement, which can only be learned through prayer, study, and engagement with our tradition.


I think, then-

It is up to God to decide what the Church "needs."
It is up to us individually to do what God inspires (calls, cajoles, commands) us to do.

+2K, MA. I'm wit'ya. Again, like MA states, no disparaging of existing/future endeavors implied whatsoever. Particular thanks to Adam B, and RR for being "Johnny on the spot" in this particular time window of our pilgrimage.

It is up to God to decide what the Church "needs."
It is up to us individually to do what God inspires (calls, cajoles, commands) us to do.

Can't agree with you, Adam on the first declaration. God gave the keys (to the Porsche) to Peter, both the decalogue and the two greatest commands (see last Sunday's gospel) are prominently on display on the owner manual cover page.
Can't disagree with you, Adam, on the second one. But my twopence cautions that I ought to consider every single one of MA's admonitions, plus the fact that the Graduale Romanum (and all such compilations) come to us from hundreds of thousands of anonymous souls' lifelong endeavors to transmit the chanted Word in the Church's designated universal tongue through rote memory, an evolution of continuously honed transcription, interpretation and daily exercise, and the scrutiny that is the lens of time.
Regarding your economy of inspiration, perhaps I could invoke the example of the recently much hallowed Steve Jobs (RIP). There is no doubt that humanity is "called" to invent, re-create if you will. Mr. Jobs' incredible insight as to what attributes and constituent elements of his latest product would attract the greatest interest from the greatest number of consumers was not only brilliant, but wonderful and beneficial. He was the greatest of Santa's elves we've seen since Edison and we were the bespectled kid in "Christmas Story" who could barely keep his water while waiting for Christmas dawn and getting his new toy. Back to Jobs' stuff- thanks to him we can carry the Bible, the GR, the SEP, the Tietze and everyone else's into church contained as bytes within our tablets, and sing away. But where I see divergence and confusion is that as we somehow don't make much distinction between the medium and the message, we will become more disinclined to invest our time in the original message (the Treasury of chant) and more inclined towards the attraction of the new, or the convenient or the subjective rather than the universal.
As a composer like you and a bunch of folks here, I have long speculated why so many composers have rummaged through the jewelry boxes of Latin texts in order to have a body inwhich to clothe their musical inspirations. At what point do we have enough "Ave verum corpus" settings? Well, never. But unless you have the serious Jones inspiration of a Kevin Allen (or me, I like my setting, like "duh") you need to consider whether the inspiration is genuine or comes from simple hubris.
I would think that trying to re-invent the wheel of proper settings would require a personal encounter with "AM" if you're aware of what already is extant. Then, by all means, have at it. For me, I don't feel the burn; I've set propers, yes, when my pastor commissioned me for specific occasions for a specific congregation. 'Nuff said.
One of the beautiful aspects of going through the "crucible" with MR3 is that we will be able to chronicle the process by which universality, sacrality and beauty affects utility in the new Ordinary settings. If anything, "we," the Church could most benefit by a serious re-orientation towards that which we know in our DNA "feels" catholic.

Adam,
1. YES, I'd just caution you to spend an equal amount of time steeping in the authentic chants, that is, if you plan on going public with compositions. (It's kinda like the Catholic who spends a ton of time learning about Marian apparitions, but doesn't know catechism basics. I'm not saying that's you, but I just caution musicians toward priorities and away from distractions... Maybe because I'm so prone to distraction?) :)
2. Unsure, but if you're trying to say 'down with ego', Amen to that.
1/3. As we say in CA, "totally".Your 'so what' test has been really useful to me on many occasion, as I'm prone to geek out on things that won't build up the Chuch. Thanks!!

Okay, now I'm rather discouraged - or at least wondering just what it is (and why bother?) that I've been doing when composing an Ave verum corpus, an Ave Maria, a Veni, veni Emmanuel, an O magnum mysterium, an In manus tuas, Domine, a Non vos relinquam orphanos, a Conditor alme siderum, a Nunc dimittis (albeit vernacular), some Mass ordinaries and propers, some hymns and hymn settings, and other non-liturgical religious music?

Should perhaps these works be withdrawn (from public scrutiny) in anticipation of being consigned to the dust-bin of time, because people here are saying that, at best, we are just diluting the pool (or ocean) of what is already there - and besides, if it's 21st century, then it's not chant or Renaissance polyphony (and even if it were in the style, it's bound to be a poor imitation of the ideal)?

Should my own time be spent better on preparing editions of Renaissance polyphony, which I enjoy very much, since early music is one of my deepest interests? At least these might be valued by the church. But, then, I suppose that the church already has identified nearly all the truly valuable early works, so is there any real point in digging up others, because (except for going undiscovered) bringing those works from old manuscripts and collections is just, for the most part, picking through the trash.

It seems as if there are elements of assault on ones self-worth and questions of pride versus humility going on in these changing times.

If we shouldn't compose chant (because it's already there), or polyphony (because it's already there), or hymns (because they are already there and we don't really need them anyway) ... what should we do?

Chuck

Just FYI, I have been making a Psalm Tone version of all the Propers here each week