May the Angels Lead You Into Paradise
  • henry
    Posts: 207
    At funeral Masses, I sing "May the Angels Lead You into Paradise" (English version of "In Paradisum", Mode VII (per No. 178 in Worship III.)) for the recessional. After finishing, there are usually quite a few people still filing out of the church. Even though instrumental music is discouraged at funeral Masses, I usually follow with something from the organ literature. What do others do?
  • john m
    Posts: 134
    I keep on hand Dupre's "Cortege et Litanie".
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,191
    I won't tell you what really happens at my place, but I'll tell you of two really excellent pieces based on the chant melody:

    One is from the St. Augustine's Organbook of Gerald Near, the other is by Daniel-Lesur. I'm not sure if the Daniel-Lesur piece is still available in print, but I believe I've run across a re-issue of it from one of the more common publishers (Augsburg or perhaps Morningstar).

    They're both gentle, quiet and because they're based on the chant, I see no serious conflict with the rubrics. . . not like what I'm asked to do at my place. . . .
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,003
    Charles Callahan has some nice pieces base on chant, including Requiem chant melodies.
    I've also used Samuel Barber's "Adagio for Strings".
  • OlbashOlbash
    Posts: 310
    I don't have my Graduale Romanum handy, but aren't there more chants that are included after the "In paradisum" and "Chorus angelorum" to be used during the procession to the place of committal?

    (P.S. Several years ago, I quickly opened a copy of the Worship hymnal to remind myself of the text before singing the In Paradisum. Someone had changed the English text from "May__ the angels lead you into paradise" to "May Charlie's Angels lead you into paradise." I could hardly sing the first note, I was laughing so hard!!!
  • Michael O'Connor
    Posts: 1,638
    Go to CPDL and download my transcription of Juan de Esquivel's polyphonic In paradisum a 6. That should lead nicely from the chant.

    Michael O'Connor
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,533
    "Even though instrumental music is discouraged at funeral Masses" was a recommendation, not a rule...along with choirs not wearing cassocks and surplices...though that has been the tradition....forever?

    There are a few things in STTL...and the GIRM...that just don't sit right with many. And I suppose that I am one of them.

    The idea of silence prior to and following a liturgy...especially one that DOES have a Liturgical Procession at the conclusion of it as they proceed to the cemetery does seem rather harsh. Though I would prefer silence to music of happiness and joy...well...music that implies that rather than solemnity.

    Let's have a composers fair and each contribute an organ work based on a chant from the funeral Mass...I knows that Frances will be finished before the rest of us, but let's go at it...and Frances, I'd love to hear what you would write.

    noel at sjnmusic.com
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 786
    henry wrote:
    Even though instrumental music is discouraged at funeral Masses, I usually follow with something from the organ literature.

    Hrm? Can someone give me a citation for this? News to me.
  • Jevoro
    Posts: 108
    Cérémonial des évêques: § 824 b: On ne fleurira pas l'autel. Le jeu d'orgue et des autres instruments de musique est permis seulement pour accompagner le chant.
  • G
    Posts: 1,387
    "'Even though instrumental music is discouraged at funeral Masses' was a recommendation, not a rule...along with choirs not wearing cassocks and surplices...though that has been the tradition....forever? '

    I think (I've been told, don't have a copy myself,) that it is a rubric contained in the Ceremonial of Bishops'.

    At my parish we almost always do a hymn or song AFTER the In Paradisum, ranging from Eagles Wings to For all the Saints to Amazing Grace, usually at the request of the family.
    My funeral choir and the priests still kick about my insisting on doing the In Paradisum first.

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    We do as Geri describes above, except the priest chants the In Paradisum (or me, if there is a visiting priest). The "Suscipiant Angelorum" or whatever it's called is sung according to a setting to the Old Hundredth in our hymnals before the In Paradisum. Typically there is a closing hymn, but that barely ever gets the first 2 rows out.

    As far as organ music, I play a hoary old Slovak hymn for the dead out of the St. Gregory's Hymnal, "Help Lord the Souls" I think. Either that or Webb's "Out of the Depths". Something cheesy that the old people might recognize.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,533
    SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM, “CONSTITUTION ON THE SACRED LITURGY”
    Vatican II, 1963

    65. In sung or said Masses, the organ, or other instrument legitimately admitted, can be used to accompany the singing of the choir and the people; it can also be played solo at the beginning before the priest reaches the altar, at the Offertory, at the Communion, and at the end of Mass.

    The same rule, with the necessary adaptations, can be applied to other sacred celebrations.

    66. The playing of these same instruments as solos is not permitted in Advent, Lent, during the Sacred Triduum and in the Offices and Masses of the Dead.

    noel at sjnmusic.com
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,191
    Yep, there it is.

    And it makes me and others wonder just how scrupulous we want to be about observing orthopraxis and the mind of the Church in these matters.

    I can't imagine giving up all of that wonderful solo organ literature in Advent, Lent and from the conclusion of the Gloria on Holy Thursday until the Gloria at the Vigil (which is what can be guessed is meant by the above quote from SC).

    And, how do Anglican Use parishes deal with this? There's way too much really phenomenal choral literature for these seasons that call for complex and highly important organ accompaniments, not to mention the solo literature.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    David, I gave up organ music in Lent. It was more difficult than any fasting you could undertake. The offertory hymn would finish and I would literally have to grab my hand away from the strings piston to keep from playing something to cover the silence. I wound up leaving the building during communion to keep from playing something after the antiphon. It really is a powerful discipline.

    Honestly, I agree with you in principle. Whatever rule-breaking I'm doing, it's better than what the guy down the street is doing. But I figure the Church deserves a chance, so maybe this next Lent you should try giving up solo music and see how well you fare!
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,191
    Yep, and flush $60,000+ worth of my musical education, not to mention my organ library, right down the proverbial toilet. My mother would go to her grave if she found out I'd stopped playing the organ for any reason.

    Or, I'll make a deal with my parish. . . I'll fast from solo organ music during those appointed times, if they'll fast from the ridiculous sacro-pop piano bar music we're expected to use and replace it with the only unaccompanied music the Church every truly approved. . .
  • Jscola30
    Posts: 116
    I saw my organ teacher owns a solo organ transcription of the In paridisum from the Faure Requiem done by Dupre (melody is in the pedal).
  • Felipe Gasper
    Posts: 786
    David wrote:
    and replace it with the only unaccompanied music the Church every truly approved. . .

    Do you mean Roman polyphony or Gregorian chant? ;-)

    Concerning the absence of organ-only music for Masses of the Dead: ah, ok, now I do recall seeing that in the V2 CSL. On a related note, I think the permissiveness that later documents give for organ music in Advent is noteworthy, and probably to be given enough weight to take seriously. (The CSL omits the traditional exceptions of Gaudete and Lætare Sunday, notice....)

    Another related note: Did the “Triduum” in 1963 include Easter Sunday? Certainly they didn’t mean to prohibit organ playing on Easter morning!?!??

    You know, there really should be some explanation of these kinds of things to the folks in the pews. Even among those of us who practice these “fastings”, in how many of our parishes is that characteristic of Lent explained?
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    David, only 60K? I recall Oberlin was somewhere in the neighborhood of $40K. I should know, I was rejected twice in a row there.

    At any rate, were I to do my job over I probably would have worked with the Saturday folk group more, and yes made that exact same suggestion: I will give up the organ music and you will give up the guitars. Probably wouldn't have worked, but it's worth a shot. Obviously I granted myself an indulgence for Laetare, if I didn't play "O Mensch Bewein" I was going to go mad! I joke that I was like Dr. Strangelove during the liturgy: my hand would pop up to play, and I'd grab it to stop.

    Felipe, I had just such an article in my bulletin. I'll post it later, but for now I'm on my Linux "partition", so it'll come later.
  • Jevoro
    Posts: 108
    In orthodoxie, sundays are not fasting, and less Laetere and Gaudete.
    For Funerals, i actually accompagny the -in my country out of use- Requiem (it was a song, isn't it?) in entry and during absoute, one of the out-of-use repons (Suvenite, Libera...). I'll add some psalm-versets to "In paradisum" to replace the "sortie instrumentale"...
    Offertories with the versets are just long enough to endure all fasting instruments without any regret...
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,006
    I don't play preludes or postludes during Lent or Advent. I do, at the pastor's direction, play quietly during offertories and at the end of communion. There's a lot of good music for Advent and Lent that is worthy of use, and I don't intend to throw it out. Keep in mind, however, that I have no desire to go back to an all-chant or all-Latin mass.
  • Cantor
    Posts: 84
    Jevoro,

    Je ne comprends ce que vous voulez dire dans l’expression “in my country burried”? Ca signifie “souterrain dans mon pays”! :)

    Voulez-vous dire “interdit”, ou que ces pièces ne sont utilisées pas souvent aujourd-hui?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,533
    "And it makes me and others wonder just how scrupulous we want to be about observing orthopraxis and the mind of the Church in these matters."

    Yes, this is the crux of it all...makes me think that WE should come up with our own guidelines and present it to them. So manh of these decisions were made, it appears, by people who were totally out of touch with the local parish life.

    noel at sjnmusic.com
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,006
    We are not medieval Europeans and do not necessarily need to duplicate all that was common at that time. However, we do need quality music that respects the dignity of the liturgy. There is a definite place for the treasures of the past along with the best music produced by composers of today. It seems to me that we need guidelines for the United States that also preserve and advance the musical dignity and integrity of the rite.
  • francisfrancis
    Posts: 8,232
    Charles:

    "Keep in mind, however, that I have no desire to go back to an all-chant or all-Latin mass."

    You must keep in mind that the liturgy does not rotate around our desires. We are here to serve the liturgy as faithfully as we are able as its musicians.
  • Jevoro
    Posts: 108
    Medieval Europeans are not necessarily what we do keep in mind they are.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,006
    True, the church does specify what it wants. Then the church in the U.S. routinely ignores what it doesn't like. However, there has to be a way to improve music in English masses and to celebrate them with dignity. The creation of sacred music did not end with polyphony. Sacred music is still being written and some of it is very good. I don't see Latin masses replacing English and Spanish masses in the United States. I am glad the EF mass has been restored, but I don't believe it will ever be the principal form of the mass in this country again.
  • Jevoro
    Posts: 108
    I can't find under the paragraphes 65 and 66 of SC what frogmusicnj indicated...
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 749
    I know I'm a singer addressing organists, but why would you want to follow In Paradisum with anything other than silence?
  • mjballoumjballou
    Posts: 986
    I just read all of these postings, having somehow missed the thread. On the organ vs. silence issue, I love all the Advent and Lenten repertoire as well. Then prepare and play an interesting program during the seasons, perhaps something that combines music with spoken text or visuals. Or a vespers that incorporates quantities of organ music. The liturgical restrictions are there for a reason - to distinguish the seasons. And I've never been convinced (no matter how often I was tempted) that my "breaking the rules" with good music was superior to someone else doing the same thing with lousy selections.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    And I've never been convinced that my "breaking the rules" with good music was superior to someone else doing the same thing with lousy selections.

    I have two responses on this. As a main point, I try to follow that guideline, but it's really easier said than done. The fact is that, as in high school, "no one" follows the rules. Everywhere we look we see people singing tropes at the Agnus Dei (or that sticky issue of "JESUS, Lamb of God.."), using music inappropriate for Mass, using other seriously altered ordinaries, or even our own priests will ignore the simplest rules of the Mass. Oh and don't forget all the crowds holding hands at the Pater. So the question comes up: does it really MATTER if I play organ music during Lent? Our Saturday folk group uses "Peace is Flowing Like a River", so does it matter if I use a good Proulx ordinary that uses tropes? Not sure if this is against the rules, but since I do it fairly often I'm not looking it up, does it MATTER if I replace the Gospel verse with something I like better? And in particular, when we are in positions where we are forced to use completely unsuitable music by pastoral good or authority, does it really MATTER what rules we do or don't follow?

    I don't know. It's hard for me to tell someone whose pastor would fire them the Sunday they played all four hymns on the organ that they need to make sure never to use a troped Agnus Dei. I can't tell someone in David's position that he should never play any organ voluntaries during Lent or Advent when his parish's contempo ensemble is going to do whatever they like, blissfully unaware that any rules regarding music exist. In these "battleground" parishes, we always have to keep politics, "being pastoral", and conversion in mind. Someone might hear "O Mensch Bewein" and find it the most beautiful sound ever and fall in love with church music. I don't doubt 90% of us started in a similar way. Unfortunately, the Liturgy is not enough. We need to be clever in how we draw people in to the world of church music. Sometimes that requires bending or breaking the rules. I'm not saying all rules are null and void as soon as you learn them, but rather that we should weigh if the good of souls is aided by some organ in Lent or that particular Proulx setting.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    And yet, as a second point, I'm fed up with all the "rules" or rather legalism regarding the liturgy. People argue about whether organ music is allowed in Lent and Advent or not, or even if they agree that it isn't someone will chime in "well that doesn't apply because X document only applies to the old Mass." Come on, does it really matter?? The immemorial custom of the Church universal is that the organ is silent during Lenten Mass and Requiem Masses. Do you really need a rule to follow what the Church has always done? I've got a rule for you: 2 Thes. 2:15 Tropes at the Agnus Dei? The Agnus Dei, for time immemorial, has always been "Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi..." So NO! You have a rule to tell me not to do it? So do I: 2 Thes. 2:15

    I've gradually, and unhappily, drifted towards the traditionalist viewpoint that the Ordinary Form is deficiently Catholic and needs to be "corrected". An example of why is when John M and Cantor were arguing back and forth about if the Sequence should be done before or after the Alleluia. John is correct that the immemorial custom is to have the sequence follow the Alleluia. Felipe is correct that the rubrics specify that it precedes the Alleluia. We are now at a point where the traditions of the Church are contradicted by the liturgical norms. Now I can understand adding canons, deleting and adding prayers, but shuffling around the sequence for no discernible good whatsoever? We went from minimalism before the council to now quibbling over whether we even have to follow ANY traditions if they aren't in the rulebooks. And of course, if our bishops and popes are masters over tradition (*COUGHDIVINEMERCYSUNDAYCOUGH*), who's to say we can't be as well?

    For me, it's a matter of following the immemorial custom of the Rite. The question isn't "do we HAVE to stop playing organ music in Lent?" but "do we GET to stop playing organ music in Lent?" Do you really need the threat of sin to follow tradition, or is 2 Thes 2:15 enough for you?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 10,006
    Gavin, I agree. Sometimes you do what you have to, and don't really have much of a choice to do otherwise. In many places, church music and the liturgy are in wretched shape. In some places, it's a bit hard to even find organists. My area is lucky in that it has 4 universities and colleges within 30 miles that all have strong organ programs. It seems to me that we have no effective leadership in reforming church music. I wont hold my breath wating for NPM to do anything useful. CMAA could provide leadership in the reform, but if it becomes a society of antiquarians stuck in the past, it won't have much effect either. I do think that any reform has to realize the limits to what it can accomplish. For example, hymns will likely stay with us and Latin will probably not replace English anytime soon, if ever.
  • Michael O'Connor
    Posts: 1,638
    Hmm.. I wonder what would have happened had Christ or his disciples said "let's be realistic about what we can change". Every worthy cause has a big vision and short-term goals. Let's not lose sight of the forest for the trees. A change in the norms of liturgical music MUST happen. If it's not in our lifetimes, so be it, but I for one am not going to stop trying because it's hard. As a former DM, I understand the challenges, some of which are daunting. To those still in the business, I encourage you to keep working towards the ideal. You never know when the opportunity to take that next step will present itself, so be ready! When I took over a very OCP parish, I started making small changes that few would notice, but it made me feel like I was doing something. Eventually you come to a place where TPTB say "this far and no further". OK, fine, you wait and prepare and educate in a non-threatening way. Those of you who have children's choir are in the perfect situation to build your foundation. Yes, it is frustrating, but so much has been accomplished in just a few years. The seams of the sacropop movement are coming apart (as all popular movements do) and we need to be ready to fill the void with something good. Just remember that the music we have now was thrust upon us suddenly and without "pastoral" preparation. We have the advantage of laying the groundwork for a more permanent Renaissance of sacred music. To that end, I agree with my friend Charles. Here at CMAA we simply cannot push for only chant and Renaissance polyphony. We need to encourage those who are composing new music (some of whom are right here with us!). Antiquarianism is just as brittle as post-modernism. I think one of the most important things that needs to be done is to create a repertoire of good, sturdy, modern chant for the OF that can be readily adapted into many vernacular languages. This would serve the purpose of giving choirs accessible chant to use most Sundays of the OF. Psalm tones are fine, but can get pretty tedious outside of singing them for psalm texts. In addition, we should continue to push for at least one Latin (OF or EF) Mass every Sunday in every parish. Let's not give up. On this Memorial Day holiday, let's honor those who worked to maintain good church music but did not live long enough to see their efforts truly bear good fruit.
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    I really agree with the spirit of Michael's post here. The CMAA is not organization with a leadership that dictates top-down results. The CMAA is all of us and embodies the full diversity everyone involved new moving to a new direction toward ideals that come to us from the faith.
  • mjballoumjballou
    Posts: 986
    I always enjoy Gavin's frankness. And he's right in a very pragmatic sense - if the rest of the parish is a free-for-all and the pastor demands various irregularities, what's a music director to do? One of the big problems is this strange Balkanization in various parishes with the sacrosanct remnant of a folk group at one Mass. Father doesn't want phone calls or trouble. All anyone can fix is what's in front of them, working incrementally and knowing that when the "spring shuffle" of clergy comes around, everything could change overnight.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,533
    * david andrew

    "Yep, and flush $60,000+ worth of my musical education, not to mention my organ library, right down the proverbial toilet. My mother would go to her grave if she found out I'd stopped playing the organ for any reason."

    But David, you will find VERY little in your organ library for Lent and Advent....unless you are playing from Protestant repertoire.

    Stick with the composers known for being Catholic and you will find little to play. It's a tradition. Playing Protestant chorale preludes doesn't really fit.

    noel at sjnmusic.com
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Mary, I suppose for a practical answer, my "meta-rule" would be simply to follow one's conscience. At the end of the day, I can live with myself playing organ music in Lent. I can't do so using a "Jesus, X of Y" Agnus Dei. On the other hand, if it's just a matter of "the Church doesn't understand MY situation", give the Church a chance. I was worried about the lack of exposure to organ repertoire, but I surprisingly got many people saying to me "I miss the organ." What a chance that was to show people the importance of the organ to the liturgy by taking it away!

    Noel, I believe we've already had the "protestant organ music at Mass" discussion, and it's probably best we not rehash it!
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,533
    But Gavin, I'm not rehashing...there is almost no suitable repertoire to play because it is not the tradition because it has always been expected of us that we not play.

    I was not aware of the pomam discussion...

    I have nothing against playing music by non-Catholic composers at Mass, unless it is known as being Protestant.

    noel at sjnmusic.com
  • G
    Posts: 1,387
    Bravo, Michael!
    And well put, Mary Jane, "I've never been convinced (no matter how often I was tempted) that my 'breaking the rules' with good music was superior to someone else doing the same thing with lousy selections."
    The everybody else is doing it argument is beyond dangerous....
    If St Joan's fabricates it's own liturgy, does it matter so much if I change a few words in the Ordinary?
    If the convent down the street is singing paeans to "the Goddess" does it matter so much if I program I Myself Am the Bread of Life?
    If I am surrounded by murderers does it matter so much that I am an adulterer?
    I would says that one of the hardest lessons one learns in negotiating the terrain between adolescence (which for me lasted at least up until yesterday....,) and at least a simulacrum of adulthood is that The Slippery Slope is not some mythic thing.

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • henry
    Posts: 207
    Hello everyone - I'm the one who initiated this thread some weeks ago. It seems that we've gone off on a tangent. The question was, what, if anything, do others do to "cover" the mourners filing out of the church after "In Paradisum". Do you repeat it? Do you sing something else? Do you play something from the organ literature? That was the question, not so much the legality of playing organ solos during the funeral Mass, or breaking/not breaking rules.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Henry, I utilize another hymn followed by organ playing. I'm not 100% sure we do it right at my parish, but the books are so confusing on the matter.
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 749
    Henry,

    See my comment above. Irrespective of the rules, why the need to fill the silence?

    Regards,

    Ian.
  • Jevoro
    Posts: 108
    In Graduale Simplex, "Ego sum..." follows "In paradisum" and "Chorus angelorum" with Ps "In exitu..." quite long enough to "cover" the filing exitus, isn't?
  • henry
    Posts: 207
    Thanks, Jevoro. I'll take a look at that.
  • Robertus
    Posts: 1
    Graduale Romanum, 1974, adds "appropriate verses" of ps. 133, "in exitu Israel" to any of the included antiphons: "In paradisum", "Chorus Angelorum", or "Ego Sum". In practice, all three antiphons are sung in succession, with verses of ps. 113 then being alternated with the last named antiphon. The GR provide five (5) psalms with antiphons for the procession to the cemetery. The church (even in Novus Ordo) provides plenty of music to "cover". Usus Antiquor (1962) provides for the Benedictus to be alternated with the antiphon "Ego Sum", as well as verses of ps. 129 and "other psalms from the Orrice of the Dead" to the same tone II. Again, plenty to cover, even the longest procession. Turn the organ OFF. LOL
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 749
    "Turn the organ OFF".

    Sometime it's the right thing to do.