The (words of the) new missal!!!!!!!
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    Omigosh, the new missal translation is aMAZing! I can hardly believe the sacrality, the symbolism. The HOSTS of angels, the BEES of the Exsultet, the MOTHER BEES of the (long form) of the Exsultet!

    Today, if you noticed, the first reading had another example of this image, "It is I who arm you, though you know me not, so that toward the rising and the setting of the sun people may know that there is none besides me."

    YES! This is exactly the impression people will have with the new Missal: there is One God and there is no other. Come quickly, Advent, do not delay! (Hopefully Harold Camping miscalculated again and the world won't end before implementation.)
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Kathy, You are so right. At the past couple ordinations that I've assisted with, my bishop has used the new translation for the Eucharistic prayer (usually the Roman Canon). It is simply amazing. I can't wait to hear the whole Mass with this higher language.

    ...we, your servants and your holy people, offer to your glorious majesty, from the gifts that you have given us, this pure victim, this holy victim, this spotless victim, the holy Bread of eternal life and the Chalice of everlasting salvation.


    Ahh.... heavenly.

    I love my bishop. :)
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,204
    I was talking with one of our lectors about it this morning, and made the comment that now with the improved language of the missal, they're going to need to go back to the drawing board with the lectionary, because the truly juvenile simplicity of the current translation of it will be glaringly inadequate by comparison to the richer language of the missal.

    Thanks, ICEL. Brilliant. Job well done.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    This is how the prefaces end, leading into the Sanctus

    "...And so with Angels and Archangels, with Thrones and Dominions, and with all the hosts and Powers of heaven, we sing the hymn of your glory, as without end we acclaim"

    "...and so with the Powers of heaven, we worship you constantly on earth, and before your majesty without end we acclaim"

    "...and so we, too, give you thanks, and with the Angels praise your mighty deeds, as we acclaim"

    Etc. etc.

    Glorious!
  • New American Bible. Must. Go. Away.
  • Jeffrey:

    May the late Fr. Richard John Neuhaus intercede on behalf of eradicating the NAB. It would be great to at least use the Grail Psalter for the Responsorial Psalm. I have had to substitute it for the last three months. The wording is so much richer and better than the NAB.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    I think the new translation of the Missal will change sensibilities. There will be implications on every level of Catholic life, including biblical studies, public life, morality, etc. (I might even find myself undergoing some conversion of life!)
  • Yes Kathy! I'm thrilled that you are thrilled too. I've been going nuts about this for a full year, and I'm sure people are sick of hearing about it from me.

    But yes yes yes it is a watershed in the history of our lives.
  • Amen to your intercessory appeal to Fr. Neuhaus, BG! Hope things are improving with the ICEL setting in Laredo!
    We have one more week with our non-ICEL settings before the merger wide introduction on the 30th.
    I think JT bought the WLP edition, which did you get, K? Has anybody reviewed the Magnificat edition up close/personal?
  • They are, to a certain extent. I just don't like the mixture of the beautiful ICEL settings and the ugly Spirit and Song junk. It's a bad combination, kind of like serving filet mignon with french fires.

    Incidentally, I saw the LP version of the Roman Missal in person. It is UGLY. The drawings are horrible. It is not a very attractive book at all. Luckily, I am giving a Magnificat Roman Missal (Chapel-edition) to a priest friend of mine. I may be seeing the CTS Roman Missal in person very soon.
  • Was told by Magnificat that the new missals will be delivered in the next few weeks; promised by the end of the month. We'll see.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    We have LTP. I don't care about pictures--I'm a words girl. As Lenny on the old Law and Order used to say, "The way to a woman's heart is through her ears." And these words are magnificent. People will hear them, priests will say them. The way to the Church's heart is through her ears, or as St. Paul said, "Faith comes by hearing." Or as St. Thomas said, "Visus, tactus, gustus in te fallitur, sed auditu solo tuto creditur."

    This is our religion: "For through him the holy exchange that restores our life has shone forth today in splendor: when our frailty is assumed by your Word not only does human mortality receive unending honor, but by this wondrous union we, too, are made eternal." (Preface III of the Nativity of the Lord)

    The move is from prose to poetry, from memo to love letter. It couldn't be a more dramatic shift. As the new translation of the Exsultet says, "Let this holy building shake with joy, filled with the mighty voices of the peoples"!
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    A good sampling of the texts can be found (with music as well) on this ICEL page.
  • I can understand your point, Kathy, but, Liturgiam Authenticam also mandated that the book which contains these words should also be noble and beautiful in appearance. LP's version is neither, in my opinion.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    OK, sure, for the 10 people in any parish who will ever see it, the pictures are important. And yes, this includes the priests. It's important.

    For them and everyone else, there is this inescapable abundance of gorgeous words, and the Gospel itself readily evident through their lucid beauty. "Look now, we pray, upon the face of your Church and graciously unseal for her the fountain of Baptism. May this water receive by the Holy Spirit the grace of your Only Begotten Son, so that human nature, created in your image and washed clean through the Sacrament of Baptism from all the squalor of the life of old, may be found worthy to rise to the life of newborn children though water and the Holy Spirit." (from the Blessing of Baptismal Water)
  • Kathy, I don't know if you have anything against visuals, but, these are important. Please note what Liturgiam Authenticam states:

    120. The books from which the liturgical texts are recited in the vernacular with or on behalf of the people should be marked by such a dignity that the exterior appearance of the book itself will lead the faithful to a greater reverence for the word of God and for sacred realities.83

    Thus it is necessary as soon as possible to move beyond the temporary phase characterized by leaflets or fascicles, wherever these exist. All books intended for the liturgical use of priest or deacon celebrants are to be of a size sufficient to distinguish them from the books intended for the personal use of the faithful. To be avoided in them is any extravagance which would necessarily lead to costs that would be unaffordable for some. Pictures or images on the cover and in the pages of the book should be characterized by a certain noble simplicity and by the use of only those styles that have a universal and perennial appeal in the cultural context.

    ===============================

    Evidently, Liturgiam Authenticam seems to regard beauty as an important component of the book. I cannot say the same for LP nor Catholic Books.
  • B-gal, she's not disagreeing with you...
    I figure the market will take care of this eventually. Missals which are not beautiful or deliver poor beauty or binding quality for the price, will gradually fade.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    Indeed. Let me go on the record as having nothing against visuals.

    Now let's talk about the words some more!
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    I was about to come on here and chew you out, bg, (just kidding!) for criticizing "LTP"'s new Missal. Chastened, I realized that I had the wrong folks!

    That said, I like what LTP did with the illustrations from Matthew Alderman. They have a "50's Modern" feel to them which is in continuity with traditional Catholic art, but with a different take. I have to agree that the Liturgical Press edition looks somewhat dated with the Erspamer illustrations, although it seems many people still like his work. I think his art comes off rather better in the missal than in his church renovations, which are rather cold to my eyes.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    This is what I find so exciting. Our religion makes very bold claims. The Bible, if you think about, makes revolutionary promises and stern demands. None of this is polite, small-talk-acceptable, fit-for-the-workplace conversation matter. Yet the old translation somehow feels polite.

    A lot of the currently popular hymns fail in just this way, I think. They say only nice things, and they say them in a nice way. A lot of current church architecture likewise bends over backwards to be non-offensive. On the positive side, people feel welcome--when they bother showing up for Mass. On the negative side, who cares? There doesn't seem to be much depth or much anything.

    If banality is the problem, the new translation is the answer. Finally we will be speaking about bold things in a bold way. Salvation does not feel like a Coke commercial; it feels like the cross and the resurrection. So let's speak honestly about it IN PUBLIC.
  • Jeffrey:

    I leafed through the LP Roman Missal last night.The binding is not very sturdy. My priest friend was not too happy with it (he did not buy it; it was given to him).

    I also got to read through the Collects. They do not sound as clunky to my ears as some have claimed. I read through the Good Friday intercessions and they are a huge improvement. The only thing that I found a little disconnecting was the chant notations for the proclamation of the readings using the NAB. On the one hand, we have the beautiful language of the Roman Missal and on the other, we have a slipshod translation of the Lectionary. Fr. Neuhaus has a lot of interceding to do.
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    I also got to read through the Collects. They do not sound as clunky to my ears as some have claimed.

    That’s the thing, BG: they’re designed to be heard, not read silently. When read aloud (even to the mind's ear) they resonate with layers of meaning entirely lacking in their prosaic predecessors. It’s like hearing Eliot, Pound or Jones for the first time, if you’ve only ever read them (and their footnotes!): it’s a revelation.

    LET us go then, you and I,
    When the evening is spread out against the sky
    Like a patient etherised upon a table;

    (Eliot, The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock)

    As drops that dream and gleam and falling catch the sun
    Evan'scent mirrors every opal one
    Of such his splendor as their compass is,
    So, bold My Songs, seek ye such death as this.

    (Pound, Grace Before Song)

    I have watched the wheels go round in case I might see the living crea-
    tures like the appearance of lamps, in case I might see the living God
    projected from the machine. I have said to the perfected steel, be my sister and for the glassy towers I thought I felt some beginnings of His creature, but A,a,a, Domine Deus, my hands found the glazed work unrefined and the terrible crystal a stage-paste.... Eia, Domine Deus.

    (Jones, A, a, a, DOMINE DEUS)
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    Today Pope Benedict said,

    "The new translation of the Roman Missal, which is the fruit of a remarkable cooperation of the Holy See, the bishops and experts from all over the world, is intended to enrich and deepen the sacrifice of praise offered to God by His people. Help your clergy to welcome and to appreciate what has been achieved, so that they in turn may assist the faithful as everyone adjusts to the new translation. As we know, the sacred liturgy and its forms are written deeply in the heart of every Catholic. Make every effort to help catechists and musicians in their respective preparations to render the celebration of the Roman Rite in your dioceses a moment of greater grace and beauty, worthy of the Lord and spiritually enriching for everyone".
  • Kathy,I believe those remarks came within the context of the Catholic Truth Society presenting His Holiness with a beautiful, personlized rendition of the Roman Missal.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    Hmm. I thought they were addressed to the Bishops of Australia on their ad limina visit. "Help your clergy" and "your diocese" aren't expressions a Pope usually uses in speaking to the Catholic Truth Society, I would think.

    Notice that he also doesn't say "Make sure your cathedral sacristan is most edified by the full-color paintings by Italian grand masters in your sacramentary." He's talking about what is "spiritually enriching for everyone."
  • My bad, it was the Australians; however, he did receive the CTS personalized Missal yesterday.

    Kathy, I know that you are rightfully stressing the importance of the words, but, the book, itself, should be noble in appearance. You don't have to be sarcastic in your remarks.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    benedictgal, you've made your point, several times, and I've agreed with it, several times. I've also tried to redirect the discussion back to the words, several times. Would you mind?
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    In my experience, there is a certain hesitancy among Catholics to talk about our religion out loud. It's true about Catholic homes, Catholic parishes, Catholic chancery staffs--Catholics in general. Part of this hesitancy is, I think, laudable. The spiritual life is in many ways a delicate and personal thing. On the other hand, there are a lot of spiritual things that we have in common, in two ways. They were given to us all, and they were given to us as a church, together. Talking about them among ourselves could be an important part of the New Evangelization.

    Part of what attracts me to the new translation is its forthrightness. It's not reserved--it's bold. And these are our PUBLIC words. They're not memorized formulas, either. People will change by speaking and hearing them.

    Oh man, I can't wait!
  • I don't mind, Kathy. It is the sarcasm that is uncalled for.

    I will, however, make one point, at least from a marketing standpoint.

    Everything should work hand-in-hand. The words of the corrected translation are indeed noble and beautiful, whether chanted or spoken. However, what good will the beauty of these words be if they are set to music that is hardly worthy of the nobility of the text? A lot of composers have set the Ordinary to music that does not fit the majesty and the dignity of the texts. As far as presentation is concerned, that, too, is important. Liturgiam Authenticam calls to mind one of the earlier documents that stressed that the book which contains these sacred words should also be noble and beautiful.

    When I hear horrible settings (think OCP and GIA) of these rich words and then see ugly renditions of the Roman Missal, it makes me wonder if this is not, in some way, a publisher's form of protest. There seems to be a lot of dissent in another blog that has ties to LP. It's as if these folks are saying, "We don't like the translations so we're going to do what we can to make them look and sound bad."
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    Ok, you win. Nothing good can come of the new Missal. The forces of evil are too strong for God.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    Lol. What I meant to say was, would you mind cutting it out? Please stop deflecting this thread about the translation itself into these side issues.

    This new missal will change things for the better. Don't take my word for it, ask Pope Benedict.