From another blog - "seling your church"
  • I realize that this may be a semantic problem (and I try not to be anti-semantic!), but we should not be in the "business of selling" our worship to the shopping public.

    Our churches need to be populated with people who are first drawn by the people they meet who are Episcopalians and freely and effectively share the love of God and exhibit strength and faith which is supported by our form of worship. There are six days in the week to get this work done, and when people come to visit an Episcopal church they should already know what to expect and should be accompanied and assisted by Episcopalians who are already familiar with how we worship.

    Of course, there will be people who come in spontaneously and they should be greeted and assisted and if interested TAUGHT Episcopal worship forms so that they can effectively make a choice as to whether this worship style is meaningful to them. If it is not, there are plenty of other places to worship. If they only are looking for social relationships there is the coffee hour where they don't need to kneel, receive communion, sing canticles or (best of all) listen to a sermon).

    We do not need to devise any more ways to make Episcopal worship more plain and simple, and appealing to people with little education or culture, or to try to lure ethnic groups away from their churches by trying to duplicate their music. (For fun, try to find an ethnic church that sings Anglican chant to try to lure in Episcopalians!)

    We do not need to SELL the Episcopal church. Just watch some episodes of HGTV House Hunters and Designed to Sell to see how home decor is made neutral and bland in order to attract uneducated and uncreative buyers.

    Is "selling" really what you want to do to the Episcopal church???

    Bruise in the Muttastery
  • "We do not need to SELL the Episcopal church. Just watch some episodes of HGTV House Hunters and Designed to Sell to see how home decor is made neutral and bland in order to attract uneducated and uncreative buyers." - Interesting comment!

    As an high church anglo-catholic, what I lament most and miss profoundly in the Anglican communion, is the blatant absence of traditional men and boy choirs in a monastic cathedral like setting offering to God traditional sacred classical musical worship (i.e. Gregorian chant, Sarum Chant, all forms of plainsong and Anglican chant as well as great sacred polyphonic motets, English cathedral choral anthems and motets).

    Many in the Anglican communion have neutralized and made bland so much in order to "SELL" the Faith! Everything from theology to doctrine and sacred art to sacred music - all done in a belief and manner to "sell" to what is thought of as a large thirsting and hungry public; especially youth. All of this, in my opinion, as a dumbing down so as to attract as many as "they" think they can attract. However, quite the opposite effect has been achieved. Who in their right mind wants any kind of food / nourishment that is so devoid of taste AND its life giving vitamins and nutrients? Perhaps what has been offered lately in many liturgical settings around the world is something other than food, but rather a drug or opiate in order to hook the faithful onto a "new" belief system and its art.

    I am thankful for one thing - one does not have to "sell" the Truth - it speaks for itself to all generations throughout all ages.
  • True, but even worse is that the Catholic church decided to do this 50 years ago and I love it when people say how improved the church is, how much better the music is and...how much more room there is to sit, since taking away everything that made it Catholic to Catholics and emulated the Protestants really HAS made a success of it.

    Things are so good we can afford to close parishes and tear down churches while the Mormons open a new one every day.

    The mormons have strict control over the music in their churches. What a concept.
  • Maureen
    Posts: 675
    Mormons make it easy to join up (especially without full disclosure of doctrine), difficult to leave, and make their clergy and people constantly watch and report on what their members are doing. With all due respect, I seriously doubt that their music program has as much impact as their teams of young and desperate evangelists, insisting that you feel a burning in the breast, and the whole bit where you convince people not to exercise their free will and good judgment.

    But why stop at Mormons? Why not point at the wonderful growth numbers (for a while) of a real full-out cult, like Scientology? Yeah, they've got music programs too. And they do more than just tithe. Let's emulate that, woohoo!

    Catholicism and other Christian religions have their failures, certainly. But there's no need to call for emulating the practices of folks who are only "successful" in "evangelization" if you totally redefine those terms.
  • Going back to the original post... let's look at the selling of religion. Yes, you need pleasant decor and helpful sales staff (that's us). But a franchise also needs a clear concept/identity, it has to sell a product that people want, and it has to sell it at a price people are willing to pay. To the first point, the Church has abandoned the identity that made it successful. We're commented on the difference between Catholicism in the movies and Catholicism in the suburbs. If Catholicism becomes like Protestantism, why not be Protestant? This doesn't stop with music; there are all kinds of Catholic identity which have been lost (fish on Friday?) Now, a unique product will not appeal to everyone, nor does it have to...it just needs to appeal to enough people to grow the franchise. You don't want a boutique church where the 7 people who have been buying your product move on to the Next Big Thing.

    To the last point: Catholicism has always been an expensive religion, in terms of time and effort (sometimes "the ultimate price"). As has been pointed out, it's not the only expensive religion out there (some, like $¢ientology, literally expensive). But people will pay the price if they recognize the value. Now, the price structure of Catholicism has gone crazy. There used to be a lot more price points...we laugh at the old lady who didn't know Latin but who showed up faithfully and prayed the Rosary...that's the blue plate special, and it's really not on the menu anymore. Then there were all those vocations, the price fixe dinner. Meanwhile, there's been general price-cutting...do away with Holy Days of Obligation, Friday abstinence, etc. But sometimes price-cutting doesn't bring people in. Sometimes it just degrades your image into that of a discount store.

    And the product is God. Everyone wants that. But we have God right here and now, not somewhere out there; God in front of us, in our mouths and bellies. That's a tremendous selling point that doesn't get stressed enough. And we serve God as if He were a fast food product...if we don't take the Eucharist seriously, why should we be surprised when others say "it's just a cracker"?
  • A Protestant acquaintance said to me, "If Jesus Christ was truly present during the Catholic mass and we could actually taste and touch him - I would come crawling, literally crawling on my hands and knees every single Sunday into your church to experience that."

    When I shared that comment with group of my fellow parishioners there was a deep silence and looked at one another sheepishly and ashamed of ourselves.

    How weak did our belief in the Actual Presence seem when compared to that Protestant statement.
  • In response to Abbot Jonathan Cool

    Even as what would likely be considered a near snake-belly Episcopalian, I too "lament most and miss profoundly" the blatent absence of traditional choral services. In the 70s I was a chorister in a fairly low Episcopal Cathedral with a fine music ministry. Holy Communion was on the first Sunday of the month, but it was truly celebrated with beautiful music from Palestrina, Darke, Durufle, Sowerby, Langlais, Britten, and a host of other composers of great music for worship. On the other Sundays the main service was Morning Prayer, and with the same caliber of composers represented in anthems and canticles as well as settings of the Preces, etc. In those days the congregation stood throughout the Glorida in Excelsis, TeDeum, and other canticles, and, as well, has the opportunity to sing beautiful hymns.
    But now things have changed and in response to those people who claim to want full participation music has been dumbed down so that the same weak settings are used each week. Choirs are disappearing as they are further excluded from the service as anthems are replaced with hymns which which purpose is to restate the readings of the day, rather than for the purpose of praising God. Attention is focused on the sermon/readings, although the it is said that the focus is "the Eucharist." Altars are moved forward displacing choirs, so that the priest can be closer to "the people" (choirs are not people???), and we all know what a great difference that fifteen or twenty feet has made. People still seem to prefer to sit in the back. I'm not happy with having to watch the bored expression on a priest's face (or her dangling earrings swinging around as she looks from the Missal to "the people" or watching them munch on the host and sip wine. Our attention has been directed away from God in order make the unprepared and unwilling to prepare feel more comfortable. I think it has gone way beyond "dumbing."

    I, too, am thankful for one thing - "one does not have to "sell" the Truth - it speaks for itself to all generations throughout all ages." The mystery of God's presence and experiencing His loving touch is what brings me to worship.
  • Ouch! Well-barked.