Percentage of Parishes Using Propers or Hymns
  • francis
    Posts: 10,847
    I am curious how many Doms here are using Propers as opposed to hymns in their current position.

    If you use Propers are they in English or Latin?

    And do you have a Praise and Worship group?
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Propers, in all forms, at different times.

    "Propers" refers, in my usage, to the proper text. This weekend we are using Guimont's setting of Psalm 8, with the refrain "O Lord our God, how wonderful your name in all the earth" as our Communion chant. This is not THE proper from the graduale romanum; but it is, in fact, the proper, in English, sung to modern music and chant tones. Now, at the choral mass, in addition to WHATEVER we are doing, we always chant the communion proper from the graduale romanum, in latin.

    Introits are sometimes used in the form of the Chris Tietze Introit hymns. During Advent and Lent we have used the introits in By Flowing Waters; Additionally, we have used some of the By Flowing Waters communion chants during ordinary time.

    No, no praise and worship group.
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    Sadly this forum is not read and commented within by every parish in the U.S. :)

    My estimate confirmed by a priest I saw today who travels throughout the U.S. extensively: 99% do not sing any propers ever.
  • Aristotle EsguerraAristotle Esguerra
    Posts: 1,186
    Propers (IN–OF–CO) and hymns here.

    Have used Latin (Graduale Romanum) and English (Rice SCG, Bartlett SEP more recently). Antiphon-only, except at Communion (all Masses) and Offertory (Sunday choir Masses).

    There are overtures towards moving hymns to before and/or after Mass only, i.e., restoring the Proper verses to the main place, though a post-communion hymn of praise is certainly within the realm, given the duration of Holy Communion.

    Tomorrow the early-Mass choir will sing the Brosig setting of Psalm 8:2 after chanting the SEP setting.

    No P&W group.
  • Dale Fleck
    Posts: 49
    Here in the small village (at the cathedral) we use at EVERY MASS, the Commuion Antiphon in English to a simple Gregorian Chant.
    On Sundays (at the "high Mass") we sing the Introit in English to simple Gregorian Chant with the congregation joining in on the Gloria Patri.
    Sadly, I wish that we could sing the propers in Latin to the "correct" Gregorian Chant. One, unfortunately, has to start somewhere. But, we do not sing hymns during communion or for a final "recessional". We do sing, a hymn of praise before the final collect.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,847
    Dale

    We have yet to meet. If you drive by on your horse, do stop in.

    JT

    I guess I am not surprised. We used to do propers on Sunday and they were banned. Now I do them on weekday feasts only, and by myself, so I use all different versions (except Gregorian) as Latin is also not allowed at the pesent time.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    Another statistic I'd be interested in is how many daily-Mass congregations do say the propers. From my travels I would guess it's about 20%. At daily Masses you will also find many of your Magnificat readers, who are also familiar with the propers. Perhaps there is some way to bridge from daily Mass usage to Sunday usage.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    From CenCA:

    Introit/Communio propers: 3 Masses of 15 English; Introits (SEP exclusively since publication, AG prior for 2, Rice SCG for the choral Mass) Communio: 2 SEP, choral MassSCG. The occasional Offertorio finds its way into a stuffed situation if the key relationship and the option four planets are aligned.
    I know that my advice and encouragement to use, or consider the content of the Introit/Communio propers has been acknowledged, and in certain cases heeded at some of the 12 remaining English Masses among the four parishes. Rome weren't built in a day.
    Interestingly, for my 18 years at current joint, both morning and mid-day Masses have always, in the absence of music leadership, strongly recited the Introit/Communio propers. And with some clandestine encouragement we're actually working towards singing those daily.
    And, of course, I do diligently check Aristotle's database for polyphonic propers each week, and if the planets align again, it's golden.
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Propers used at two fully sung masses every week and 10-12 major feasts per year.

    Introit, Offertory, Communion- Gregorian propers
    Gradual and Alleluia- Chants abreges most of the year, Gregorian propers 7-10x yearly.

    The schola is training toward having the full cycle of Gregorian propers. Target date- June 2013. When I took the post as DoM in Jan 2009, the choir sang the Gregorian Introit and Rossini propers for everything else. The new pastor wanted to move toward full Gregorian propers, and of course I was ecstatic about this, and so we have been steadily working towards this goal.

    This is for an EF parish. The pastor and I joke that even though we only have the older mass, we sing the music that the Council envisioned more than any other parish in the San Diego diocese. Funny, but technically true. Who'd have thought it?
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    Our schola sings at one EF Mass every Sunday, and we have been singing the full Introit for over a year and the Communion for over two years. For the Graduale and Alleluia, we use Rossini, but I have started them singing the Offertory roughly every other week. Our women did a wonderful job singing "Sanctificavit Moyses" this morning.

    Brick by brick...
  • francis
    Posts: 10,847
    yall don't mind if i live vicariously through you, right?
  • jpal
    Posts: 365
    At one Mass, we just began singing in/grad/al/of/co every week. The communion is from the GR; the others will (usually) be short versions (such as Chants Abreges for between readings if available, or my own simplified versions, or psalm tone settings) or SEP. This past weekend was the first time we sang the gradual and alleluia; schola worked hard for weeks on the long GR ones and it was a glorious experience to be able to offer them for the first time. In fact, it has been a glorious week because we also received our Vatican II Hymnals and our Magnificat altar missal!

    The other three weekend Masses that have music will begin using communion antiphons in Advent (either SEP or Andrew Motyka's). Two Masses will be singing SEP introit and offertory by next summer; one Mass will continue to have hymns.

    No praise band.
    (Anymore)
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,424
    At Walsingham in Houston we use the following at high mass: 1)Entrance hymn + English introit, 2) proper resp. ps. to Ang. chnt. in directum, 3) proper Alleluya verse, 4) proper offertory + anthem, 5) proper communion + anthem + hymn.
    At the early mass are done only English propers and Latin Gregorian ordinary, including creed.

    I chuckled a bit at your abbreviation for Director of Music!
    Should one now refer to music directors as Dom Francis and Dom So-and-so...?
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,198
    Speaking of abbreviations - where I live there is the "Department of Aging", which abbreviates to DOA, not exactly what the elderly wish to contemplate.
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Well, MJO, for CharlesW we could make the distinction Dom Charles. Fur mich, Dirigent uber Musick, or Dum Charles. (Oder "Dirigent am Musick?;-)
    For Chuck, DOA doesn't register, as I just read through his AVE MARIA! We have a winnah!
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    Chaz,

    Was ist das "Aristotle's database" to which thou dost in passing refer?
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    It's found at his blog, K, "Recovering Choir Director." Basically, he's organized a spreadsheet for the propers' settings hosted by CHG at CPDL that you can simply clik directly to the edition/piece for a quick perusal.
    It's amazingly valuable, especially when used in conjuction with Gary's CanticaNova musical planning pages.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,513
    Synergy! I love it.

    Speaking of which, Chonak taught me how to link to great pages like this
  • Charles in CenCA
    Posts: 2,416
    Ta dah! Did you also go out and ride your Harley Davidson solo for the first time this afternoon as well?
    Speaking of linking, can anyone link me to pages from the new Missal that actually have prefaces with chant (standard) notation) online. I'm trying to help my celebrants get prepared. How cool is that? They want to practice!
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    There's two resources right now:

    From the ICEL (Modern Notation)
    From Andrew Hinkley (Neumes, transcribed from the ICEL editions)

    As far as I know, the ICEL editions are exactly what will be in the missals.
  • Ralph BednarzRalph Bednarz
    Posts: 493
    At least one of the propers ( I. O. or C.) is sung each week. We do not use introits as preludes to hymns but we will provide a congregational refrain to ensure participation as directed by M. S
    and SttL.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,847
    Ben

    That second link doesn't work on my computer... does it work on yours?
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    hmmm... that's weird. It did when I first posted it. It should be working now.
  • ProfKwasniewskiProfKwasniewski
    Posts: 247
    At our parish, twice a month, a choir chants the Offertory and Communion antiphons from the Simple English Propers. It may be that in the future, the use of these antiphons will increase, given current dynamics.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,198
    ProfK ... one could only hope so!
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,332
    Before I got there, I doubt many at my parish even knew the propers existed. We currently do a Communion proper + hymn, opening, offertory, and closing hymns. The Communion proper is taken from Rice's Simple Choral Gradual.

    Considering I've also implemented the ICEL Missal Chants for our new setting of the ordinary, this is as far as I'm willing to push it at this time.

    Brick by brick...
  • francis
    Posts: 10,847
    Well, you all must be the 1% that JT was talking about.
  • svaillan
    Posts: 39
    We use the propers from the simplex in english at all but high mass, where we use the gradual. (Lewiston, Maine)
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Please help.

    My Graduale Romanum has the Antiphon and psalm verse for the introit, but no Gloria Patria. My missalette has no Gloria Patri or Psalm verse. Is there one correct way to do this?

    I think it logical to have the choir sing the antiphon and the psalm verse, to have the congregation join in the Gloria Patri, and then finish with a repetition of the antiphon, but don't know if this is foreseen in the rubrics.
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