Did JMO sabotage the Gregor und Taube website?!
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    Or is it just down for maintenance?

    Further, do sensationalist forum topics generate more clicks?

    And, more importantly -- will chonak be able to help me find the communion chants for the next two weeks? (I already tried archive.org).
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,440
    My guess is that the site's bandwidth quota for the month has been used up.

    I found a Polish site that copied the PDFs from Gregor & Taube, so I've put a temporary copy of them in a directory on my website. The file names are in Polish now, but you can identify them by the numbering.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Incantu, I couldn't help but to ask, "is Graduale novum not complete? (I ask this because I ordered a copy which I'm anxiously waiting to arrive and am hoping that I don't have to rely on Gregor nor Triplex much, both of which seem incomplete. I don't believe propers of the Immaculate conception are neither in Gregor nor in Triplex.)

    Chonak, thank you for pdf in your site. But I couldn't open the 'parent directory' there. It could be just my computer though.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,440
    That's OK, Mia. The parent directory doesn't have anything pertinent to Gregor & Taube, anyway.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Oh, I thought that was index for Gregor somehow. Do you have index for Gregor in your site? I'm looking for communion chant, 'Panem de Caelo." and don't know how to locate it without the index. (Gregor site is still down.)
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,440
    I looked it up in the Graduale Romanum index and fetched the PDF for Week 18.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Thanks, Chonak. It's a big help. Now I can find other ones there too!
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    You are amazing, chonak! I knew yours was the right name to invoke in this particular circumstance. Thank you.

    Mia, the GN vol. 1 contains music for Sundays, major feasts (but not the Immacualte Conception), and a few commons. I use the G&T versions with my choir because it contains only the simpler St. Gall neumes (I double ceck everything against Laon myself and make any necessary adjustments in rehearsal), it has pointed verses for the communion chants, and it is easier for me to print, copy, e-mail, etc. since it is a .pdf.

    Let me know what you think about the GN when it arrives. :)
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Oh, no. not Immaculate conception propers? Does GN have Vol 2 yet?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,440
    Immaculate Conception isn't as prominent in most countries as it is here in the US where it's the patronal feast.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    I'm a bit disappointed because my schola is planning to sing for Missa Cantata (EF) on Immaculate Conception, and I was relying on GN.
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    While I do not have the GN, I am not surprised at the ommission, since all the propers for IC are neo-gregorian.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Does that mean there are no ancient neums for the IC propers?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,440
    That's the way it looks. The Graduale Triplex has no ancient neumes for the IC propers.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Ok, so I'm stuck. I wonder what Semiologists would suggest to do with them for chanters?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,440
    I suppose there's no more authentic version than what is in the Solesmes book, so sing that.
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    In cases where you know what pieces a neo-gregorian composition draws from, you can try to sing according to their neums. But is this really reasonable? Neo-gregorian pieces were conceived having in mind an interpretation which is not the one you get from semiology. And the adaptation may have been made having in mind principles incompatible with such an interpretation. (The Mass for the IC was made up after Bl. Pius IX proclaimed the corresponding dogma, btw. A curiosity: Gaudens gaudebo in the 1871 Graduale is quite different from the one you find in post-Pothier editions.)
  • chonak,

    thanks for your files. Can you add my collection of G&T PDFs to your site? If yes, I send you them by e-mail. Also G&T index file (Verzeichnis.pdf).

    miacoyne,

    The Immaculate Conceptions chants have some "cf." indications in Graduale Triplex. You can follow them to paste the original gregorians neums on Graduale Romanum notation, but only in part.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,440
    succentor: I don't intend to maintain a permanent copy of the G&T files, since I assume G&T's site will come back soon, but if it's useful in the meantime, I'll post your files on my web server too. You can find my e-mail address by clicking on my name above.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    Thank you succentor, but I'm not sure about using them, because they have different texts. The rhythm and the stress of the words are different. I guess I can use some of them when they match.
  • Can anyone get access to the Offertories with verses from the Gregor und Taube website? We have been using them regularly. Thanks.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,440
    I've posted some of the offertories for the coming weeks at the site above.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,440
    Thanks to a colleague, I've posted more of the G&T files on my web server; it's a pity that www.gregor-und-taube.de is still not working.
  • dvalerio
    Posts: 341
    Seems to be online right now...
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 7,440
    Hooray! It's back!

    Well, maybe not altogether. On the site, Anton Stingl writes:
    Nach einem Absturz dieser Website ist noch nicht alles wieder in Ordnung. Bitte melden Sie mir auftretende Fehler

    which is:
    "After a crash of this website, not everything is working again. Please report to me any errors that appear."
  • In cases where you know what pieces a neo-gregorian composition draws from, you can try to sing according to their neums. But is this really reasonable? Neo-gregorian pieces were conceived having in mind an interpretation which is not the one you get from semiology. And the adaptation may have been made having in mind principles incompatible with such an interpretation. (The Mass for the IC was made up after Bl. Pius IX proclaimed the corresponding dogma, btw. A curiosity: Gaudens gaudebo in the 1871 Graduale is quite different from the one you find in post-Pothier editions.)


    I think it is entirely appropriate to use the semiology of the parent chant, if it exists. After all, we're the chants you cited not assembled before the Solesmes melodic restoration? I don't see anyone arguing for the use of the Medicean chant versions in the name of authenticity!
  • igneusigneus
    Posts: 265
    I don't see anyone arguing for the use of the Medicean chant versions in the name of authenticity!


    I haven't started yet.
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