The C-Clef
  • juanDELlobo
    Posts: 4
    Hello

    I am new here, and so please forgive my ignorance. I always sung in modern notation but as of May, I've been learning Gregorian chant in earnest. For my own purposes, I've been transposing some chants into modern notation (regardless of your view on if transposing diminishes the purity of the chant etc, I feel comfortable doing this at some points) and have difficulty with the c-clef.

    1)Is the c-clef akin to denoting where middle c is, much in the way a tenor clef functions?

    I ask this, because some chants I've written in modern notation have a wide range, but when I attempt to render them into chant notation, I find I am utterly lost. This is because the c-clef can be placed on different lines. What I was taught is that is not akin to key signatures in a modern sense, but rather the "height" of the sound.

    2)So, say if I wanted to render a composition into chant notation that has a wide range (say, 1.5 octaves just for an example), will the placement of the c-clef effect this?

    Sorry if this is confusing & thank you for your help.

    Blessings,
    Juan
  • WJA
    Posts: 237
    The C-clef is "do" as in "do re mi fa sol la ti do."

    "Do" can be any pitch. Thus the C-clef can be any pitch. So, say I wanted to tap out a chant on the piano. I could assume the C-clef is C, in which case I would play the chant in the key of C-major. Or I could assume the C-clef is B-flat, in which case I would play it in that key.

    If a chant has a broad range, you can put the C-clef higher or lower as necessary to keep most of the notes within the four lines and minimize the use of ledger lines.

    Does that help?
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,061
    The c clef is nominal C...which is ut in the natural hexachord, or in modern thinking, do. So, if you wanted to transcribe the chant onto an octave-transposing treble clef, writing the C-clef note onto the third space, you could do that, and chances are, it would more or less fit the staff. However, it would probably not fit any group of voices you have, so you would need to transpose the chant to fit. If the c clef moves in the course of the chant, that c is still middle c for purposes of transcription, or do for purposes of singing.

    If for some reason you're going the other way (as it sounds like), you'll place the C clef so that most of the notes fall on the staff. If they move out of that ambitus, you'll have to change the position of the c-clef.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,164
    It's really too bad that, beginning sometime in the past couple of hundred years ago, keyboard instruments with their almost universal use of the bass F-clef and treble G-clef pretty much drove the C-clef into oblivion, save for the viola 3-rd line C-clef (also used for very high symphonic tenor trombone parts) and the tenor 4-th like C-clef (used for high symphonic trombone parts and, until the last 75-100 years, for tenor voice parts, at least in Europe). The 2nd-line C-clef used to be ideal for many alto vocal parts (or failing that the 3rd-line C-clef) ... and the modern placement of the alto voice in the treble G-clef generally requires excessive use of ledger lines below the staff, just as the growing modern practice placement of the tenor voice in the bass F-clef generally requires excessive use of ledger lines above the staff (the downward octave transposing treble G-clef works alright, although it is a nod to those whose only acquaintance has been with the treble G-clef and perhaps the bass F-clef).

    Singers of Gregorian chant have a great advantage in that they understand the idea of the (moveable) C- and F-clefs (a.k.a. Doh and Fah clefs) ... and they understand further that the Doh and Fah are often relative (they can be at any pitch) - just as early singers (and even instrumentalists) understood that the classical G, C, and F were relative pitches.

    Isn't it nice that the modern practitioners of such an ancient art understand and adapt to these facts which should be familiar to everyone (instead of their being swept under the "dumbing-down" rug)!
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,606
    You might want to visit:

    http://www.frogmusic.com/basicchant/if-you-can-sing-joy-to-the--2.html

    On the right column are links to a copy of the textbook, but more importantly links to the slide presentation in Keynote or Quicktime that you may click through. The audio samples, especially the ones of sung English chant, have helped people understand the sliding Do and Fa clefs in chant, using the practice one used of coloring the Do and Fa lines.

    Everything on www.basicchant.com and www.thecatholicchoirbook.com is free to download.

    Let me/us know if this is helpful, please.
  • juanDELlobo
    Posts: 4
    Thank you all for help and for the links. My brain for some reason just didn't want to process! It's unfortunate we as Catholics (at least after Vatican II) have been singing predominately in modern notation. But chant abounds and thank God for it!
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